MVN: Most Valuable Network

#1

Posted by Alex Remington, January 8, 2009 12:20 AM

I can say a hell of a lot more than just "Good luck John," most of it unprintable. Here's a start: damn it.

Keeping Smoltz was a major priority for the offseason. Wren screwed up small-time on Willingham and Olsen, medium-time on Swisher, big-time on Burrell. But Smoltz, in my opinion, is a bigger deal than all of them. The Sox got him with a majorly incentivized deal, which we certainly could have managed: if he had pitched and earned the money, he would have pitched well, and if he hadn't pitched, he wouldn't have earned much money. The incentives amortize the risk.

But just as importantly, this is bad for the Braves' image. Smoltz and Chipper were the Braves. Smoltz was the face of the Braves, the elder statesman, who'd never played anywhere else. Watching him flee the ship is a bad omen worse than The Omen 3. It makes me nauseous. We're going to be a bad team next year, pretty much regardless, and Wren's poor performance this offseason is a major factor. Why not, at least, let Smoltz stay a Brave? (I am completely blaming this on Wren, not on Smoltz. As far as we know, Wren never even offered him a deal.)

Ugh.

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#2

Posted by KomaGawa, January 8, 2009 12:36 AM

Well, at least he didn't go with the Mets. No, after reading so much about the way John thinks in his comments and commitment over the years. This is not at all surprising. I understand both sides. Wren has to play his conservative cards, the Braves are not one player away from going to the World Series. It will probably be a tad longer. I admire Mr. Wren for standing on the same principles that he has stood by through the off season on the previous negotiations. The Braves have to look out for their long term future. Much as I like John, I think he can become a more important factor for the Red Sox in denying them another WS Championship. GO JOHN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and GO BRaves.

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#3

Posted by gerry, January 8, 2009 12:44 AM

Being old enough to be a fan of both the Boston Red Sox and Boston Braves, and with both teams having lost Teixeira within a year, I feel your pain.

Please believe that the Sox will take good care of John Smoltz, who is a treasure. He adds world class experience to an excellent rotation, but one which could be as frail as AJ. Sorry the Braves didn't lock him up, but be happy he could be a difference maker in the fight for the Pennant and a Ring. Imagine the laughs he and Wake will have.

Imagine what Smoltz and Wake can teach all these kids. Beckett (28), Daisuke (28), Lester (25), Penney, Wakefield, Masterson (24), with John Smoltz healing (we're hoping for a start by June 1st), and Buchholz (24), Bowden (23), Zinc (29), Pauley (25) & Hansack finishing up AAA, all with some MLB experience.

Thanks for sharing him with us. He will always be a Brave.

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#4

Posted by ccrider, January 8, 2009 1:15 AM

I wish I could be as gracious about Smoltz's jumping ship as most, but I find it both selfish and hypocritical. I live in the Atlanta area, a longtime fan and I have listen to him preach his Christian beliefs about being a good father and doing the right thing for his family. He has been in the middle of a very public divorce recently and instead of staying in the city with his kids, who I am sure are finding it difficult to deal with their parents separation, he chases the glory of 1 last playoff run for his own selfish ego. I find this departure as just one more two faced player, rationalizing a betrayl of a team, fanbase and family.

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#6

Posted by Ron E., January 8, 2009 7:19 AM

This completely sucks although I can certainly understand why Smoltz would do it after the offseason the Braves have had so far. The Sox give him a chance to make the playoffs while the Braves only offer a chance to come in 4th. $5 mil guaranteed doesn't sound like too much to pay a Braves icon who has a history of coming back strong from injuries. Wren better have a very good excuse for not matching or exceeding the Sox's offer. If he isn't under orders from ownership to slash payroll, he better sign Lowe quickly now then do something about the outfield that is more than offering Andruw Jones a minor league contract. If he does have to slash payroll, then I guess it's time to put Chipper on the trading block.

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#7

Posted by Alex Remington, January 8, 2009 8:40 AM

I misspoke above -- it's not that we didn't offer him a deal, it's that we offered him very little, and the Sox offered a few million more. It's unbelievable that Wren wouldn't have seen his way clear to opening a few million dollars out of the coffers.

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#8

Posted by Brent, January 8, 2009 10:26 AM

This is an absolute disaster. It really is. I have lost all faith in Frank Wren, and to be honest I see little reason to renew my season tickets if the Braves insist upon not trying to compete or even give us a team to watch. This is terrible.

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#9

Posted by scottandwtb, January 8, 2009 10:55 AM

Well, no reason not to dump everything we have in going after Lowe now.

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#10

Posted by Brent, January 8, 2009 11:09 AM

What is the point in going after Lowe? We are much more than 1 starter away from contending right now, especially after we passed up on Burrell and let Smoltz get away. So why spend money to get us from, say, 70 wins to 75 wins? I just don't see the point.

Either our financial situation is significantly worse than the Braves have let on (unlikely), or Frank Wren is an idiot (seeming more likely). Either way I expect some sort of explanation for the horrid off season mr Wren and company have put together.

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#11

Posted by ink-stained scribe, January 8, 2009 11:43 AM

Alex, I have a hard time comprehending why the Braves wouldn't cough up an extra $3 mm to keep Smoltz unless their review of his medical status has them absolutely convinced that he won't pitch again, or that he might be able to tough it out for only a couple of starts before retiring.

This is the only way this move makes any sense at all. The PR hit alone will cost them more than $3 mm if Smoltz helps Boston. And if he can somehow make 15-20 decent starts, then he's more than worth the incentives.

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#14

Posted by Andrew, January 8, 2009 12:01 PM

I have defended Wren so far this offseason, and I have actually been happy about the moves Wren has not made so far, IE walking away from Peavy/Towers, losing Burnett. I also know it wasn't his fault with Furcal...but this is not defendable.
Smoltz was the perfect player for the Braves to have right now. He wouldn't have been that expensive, only around for 1 more year, and could have taught our young pitchers a lot about pitching. I have to imagine that if the Braves were anywhere within range, Smoltz would be in Atlanta this year, but apparently not. This is really disappointing... oh hell, I'm furious.

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#15

Posted by Brent, January 8, 2009 12:19 PM

Scott, all I was saying is that we shouldn't give up $13+ million per year, plus a second round draft pick, if we have no intention of competing next year. Its the same concern I had for the Vasquez trade- I liked it a lot if we could compile a competitive team, but if not then I would rather keep Flowers for another year and move him once we are actually ready to compete. And while I like the optimism Ron, when I compare our team top to bottom to the rest of the division we are at best 3rd and probably 4th best going into the season.

I don't blame Wren for the Burnett situation at all. But whether Furcal was to blame or not, there was certainly a better way to handle that situation. And I've yet to see him make a deal like the Burell deal, signing a good player for pennies on the dollar, even though those deals appear to be out there.

I really do understand what you're saying about Smoltz, and after my knee jerk reaction has passed I do see that there is some merit in the decision. But I still think it was a terrible move. There is not much to look forward to next year, and one of the things I was excited about was watching Smoltz come back yet again. Alex said this morning that we could have taken the $3 million we spent on David Ross and given that to Smoltz, thereby matching the Sox offer. Would anyone here honestly rather have Ross for the next two years instead of Smoltz for next year? No matter what the risks, for a mere $3 million more I want Smoltz.

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#16

Posted by ink-stained scribe, January 8, 2009 12:53 PM

I dunno Brent, if the alternative is David Ross or a Corky Miller-type plus a Smoltz who can't pitch, that's a tough call.

Sure, it'll be tough seeing Smoltz rehabbing in a Red Sox uni rather than a Braves uni, but if he's physically unable to help the team, then the money does indeed matter.

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#18

Posted by ink-stained scribe, January 8, 2009 1:09 PM

Andrew,

Yes, he may be the most competitive professional athlete we've seen in our lifetimes. Tiger Woods has said as much.

But he has missed significant parts of three seasons with injuries, most recently the shoulder. He's had, what, five or six major surgeries?

If sheer willpower were sufficient, you'd pencil him into the Braves rotation tomorrow. But bodies do break down.

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#20

Posted by Brent, January 8, 2009 1:32 PM

Maybe he won't be able to pitch next year, who knows, I'm guessing he ends up fairly successful. But the overall risk on Smoltz is worth the price. Not only as a baseball matter, but also as a business matter, because I can assure you this damages the Braves ability to generate revenue.

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#22

Posted by Marc Schneider, January 8, 2009 3:30 PM

It's not like Smoltz was likely to win the Cy Young this year. The Sox are taking a gamble, which they can afford; the Braves really can't even for relatively little money. It made no sense really to count on Smoltz last year coming off arm problems and even less this year. He won't even be able to pitch until June. The Red Sox can afford to tread water until then (especially since he is, at best, their number three or four). The Braves can't do that. The 90s are over and it's time for Braves fans to face that.

Smoltz is like a lot of these players that give lip service about their families but, when it comes right down to it, they are not willing to make much sacrifice for them. The fact is, athletes, like actors and politicians, are frequently self-centered and driven; this is one of the reasons that people like these are successful but it's also why you can't take at face value their professions of putting family first. I don't think, however, that we can or should judge Smoltz on this without knowing the full situation--and it's really none of our business anyway.

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#23

Posted by Andrew, January 8, 2009 4:09 PM

I think this is pretty damming:

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/stories/2009/01/08/john_smoltz_chipper_jones.html

Chipper speaks out. Also speaks to him potentially being traded... he's pissed.

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#24

Posted by Brent, January 8, 2009 4:10 PM

Sorry, but I simply disagree. Smoltz, unlike Glavine and Maddux, is still playing as well as he ever has. His ERA+ hasn't been below 127 since his return to the rotation, and when he is healthy he is an ace. There is no way to know whether or not he'll be heathy this year, but if he is he is an excellent pitcher. The downside risk is $5.5 million, but as I said before there really isn't much risk since he brings in so much revenue by himself. The upside is huge, since he could be an ace for 2/3 of a season. I honestly don't know why we wouldn't make a better offer.

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#25

Posted by scottandwtb, January 8, 2009 4:18 PM

I like Smoltz, really I do. I wish he was coming back. But from the Braves standpoint, do they want to give (potentially up to) 10 million to someone who won't pitch until June and may not be able to pitch effectively, or at all when you can take that money (with a few mil more thrown in) and spend it on someone like Lowe who can take the ball on opening day and is a 200 inning a year guy? At 13 mil a year, Lowe is starting to look like quite the bargain. Plus, the Red Sox have money to burn that Atlanta just doesn't have.

Again, I like Smoltz and I wish he was coming back. But from the perspective of the Braves front office guys I can see why, financially, it didn't make sense to put that much on the line for Smoltz.

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#26

Posted by Brent, January 8, 2009 4:19 PM

Those Chipper comments are pretty telling about how the players feel about our organization right now. And we wonder why its hard to get guys to sign with the Braves right now...

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#27

Posted by Brent, January 8, 2009 4:24 PM

And this is the second time this off season we have gotten into a war of words in the media over contract negotiations. This just doesn’t look good, and is not the way we used to do business. Smoltz and the Braves arguing over the size of their offer, etc. just doesn’t look good. And in the wake of Furcal and Peavy we are starting to sound like a winey organization.

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#28

Posted by D'Andre Willaims, January 8, 2009 5:45 PM

Smoltz was my favorite player. It's going be weird for me to watch him pitch in a Red Sox uniform. If I was him I probably would've done the same thing. I think Wren is good GM, but this offseason has sucked thus far. He can't seem to pull the trigger on deals or trades. At least he has a great philosophy for building the team from within.

btw, I know a bunch of Braves fans are really going to hate Wren now. lol

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#32

Posted by KomaGawa, January 9, 2009 6:49 AM

1) We all love john, and we wish him the best no matter what. He has certainly paid his dues to the Braves and their fans.
2) If I were John Smoltz........... well, I can imagine......... I would rather use up the last of my arm going for the RING, baby! the ring! I know I am most likely going to cooperstown and I'll wear an A on the cap, but the RING! the Ring! And I would do it over the bodies of the Yankees! There would finally be nothing stopping me, I'd have to do it to soothe the competitive nature in me.
Dreaming of the RING!! the ring. I have been loyal to the Braves and the community (despite my divorce, but hey, even Chipper got divorced) I will love Bobby and all the guys, but I have to go for IT!

John, I hope you get it. I really do! With all my heart I hope you and I wish Chipper could to,,,,,,get another Ring before you go...

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#33

Posted by Andrew, January 9, 2009 10:38 AM

I'm just going to say throw this out there in the wake of my delerious sadness, and I know it bring some disagreements, but hear me out. The Braves can't get pitching to come here, but IF the Bravos get Kawakami, maybe they should focus the rest of their money elsewhere...on that OF bat they need. A righty OF bat...the best available...Manny. I know, he's kind of a douche and a whiny baby, and a 5 year old can play better defense (and display more maturity). But the Braves need a bat. He is the best right handed bat of the past decade (can you think of anyone better?) Just throwing it out there.

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#34

Posted by ADC, January 9, 2009 10:39 AM

I was just reading Rosenthal's latest post and he gave a little more info on the Braves offer:

" The guaranteed portion of the offer provided by the Braves was in the neighborhood of $2 million. A source familiar with the offer confirmed that Smoltz's earnings could have risen to $12 million if he'd maximized all of the incentives of the offer provided by Wren.

With Atlanta's offer, Smoltz would have received a $1 million bonus the day he was placed on the active roster and subsequent $1 million bonuses for each 30-day period that he remained on the roster. There were also bonuses available based on appearances and accomplishments, such as Cy Young votes and an All-Star selection."

If that is accurate, I'm going to change my tune on this. That is a very sensible offer in my opinion. And if Smoltz is really as confident about his return as we've heard, he could comfortably take that deal to stay in the ATL. The way I see it, this works out one of two ways. Either he doesn't make it back (or stinks when he does) or he pitches like he did before his arm fell off. In the former case, the Braves will be better off. In the latter case, he would have made about the same amount (if not more) with Atlanta. I think Smoltzy went for his best chance at the post season and the criticism that the Braves will get is probably unfair.

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#39

Posted by Andrew, January 9, 2009 2:46 PM

Oh, and A-Rod is better during the season...until he gets emasculated in October like he does every year. Manny on the other hand...

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