Braves Rumor Rumblings
Update: Ken Rosenthal basically puts a cap on the Renteria-Garland rumor with this post. Rosenthal says the proposed deal with Renteria and a pitching prospect for Garland but that it basically went nowhere. Not too surprising, many reports had said that Garland was the only veteran White Sox starter not on the block. I would be interested to see if Schuerholz turns his sights on Javier Vazquez in a Renteria deal since I believe Vazquez to be the better pitcher. He goes on to say that the Braves are still very interested in Mark Teixeira but that a deal most likely would not get done without Jarrod Saltalamacchia because the Rangers don’t really need Yunel Escobar.
I’m back from my European adventure after an exciting landing at JFK through wind and rain. I’ve been trying to stay as current on the rumor mill as possible leading up to the July 31st deadline that is sure to bring some excitement to Braves fans. Now with all of it rounded up, here is a rundown of the Braves rumors floating around in the blogosphere.
- I had heard some fans talking about a supposed Edgar Renteria-Jon Garland swap that White Sox GM Kenny Williams turned down. Most of the message board rumors floating around are pretty unreliable but when Buster Olney’s blog turned up a very similar rumor, I was confident enough that it was legitimate. In theory this seems to make sense. The Braves have a decent option in Yunel Escobar, who while being a defensive upgrade over Renteria would be far less at the plate. Still, the Braves would have reasonable offense from a position that doesn’t expect much, add a starter who could post a sub-four ERA in the NL, and open up every-day playing time for a very deserving Kelly Johnson. Garland is signed through 2008 with a $12 million tab next year. If there is a holdup, it is undoubtedly concerning money.
- Two BP guys (Will Carroll and John Perrotto) give some very useful in a recent post regarding the Braves and possible targets. The first thing you see is that Carroll contradicts the Olney report by saying that Garland is not on the table. The second is a comment about the Braves attitude towards Salty. It seems that Carroll believes the Braves may be trying to jack up his value by waiting until the last minute to trade away the up and coming Braves prospect. Maybe the most shocking of all though is Perrotto chiming in on Pirates ace Ian Snell. Reports and rumors keep trickling out that Dave Littlefield may be opening up to trading Snell for offensive help. Matt Kemp of the Dodgers and Saltalamacchia are the two names thrown out here. Snell is one of a select few I could see the Braves moving “Salty” for.
- The Diamondbacks are reportedly shopping around right-hander Livan Hernandez, the half-brother of Mets starter Orlando. Some writers say the Braves are interested and some have said the opposite. Livan is the epitome of an innings eater. He has been known to throw 140+ pitches many times before. The problem however is that his performance and homerun rates have been getting drastically worse. Hernandez has ERA’s of 6.69 and 5.89 while allowing sixteen homeruns in nine combined starts between June and July, while his ERA was below four in both of the first two months of the season, allowing only four longballs.
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52 Responses to “Braves Rumor Rumblings”
July 23rd, 2007 at 6:54 pm
Olney says were interested, Rosenthal says no, who to believe!
July 23rd, 2007 at 8:51 pm
I think IF we trade Renteria, we trade him to the A’s for Joe Blanton!!! That trade Makes way too much sense not to do it!!! Blanton is the Guy we need!!! Renteria is the type of player that Billy Beane likes!!! Corey Bishop, earlier I said Yunel is the Future SS, I was meaning until Elvis is ready!!! OR if unless Elvis is traded!!! Even if Elvis does not get traded, he is STILL 2 to 3 years away!!! Thats what I meant!!!
July 23rd, 2007 at 8:54 pm
No he’s not. Renteria still has a good amount of money due and Beane has a very tight budget. The whole point of these A’s rumors about the starters is that they’ll be too much to sign.
July 23rd, 2007 at 8:57 pm
Oh, thanks for clarifying Braves#1. That’s what I figured you meant
July 23rd, 2007 at 11:40 pm
Will, Yeah Renteria is due about 6 million next year and 11 million with a 3 million buy out in 09, but the Braves can eat the rest of his contract this year and eat 2 million next year!!! When you said: The whole point of these A’s rumors about the starters is that they’ll be too much to sign. I guess you meant that trying to sign them to an extension will be hard to do, OR We would have to give up more than that to get them? Either one I dissagree with Blanton is STILL cheap for a few more years!!! I think 09 he might be a Free Agent!!! I think that would be Win Win for Both teams!!! Much better in my opinion than the Garland potential trade!!!
July 24th, 2007 at 12:37 am
Read your NL Central article at The Hardball Times. Nice writeup, but I have to disagree with your assessment that the NL West was thought to be the weakest division heading into the 2006 season. I’d say they were the best NL division headed into the 2006 season. All five teams had decent to very good 2005 campaigns, so I’m not sure where you came up with that. Perhaps the jetlag?
vr, Xei
July 24th, 2007 at 1:04 am
You go and look and compare the Braves offensive stats of this team and the teams that have won one and done for the past 10 years.
Compare the pitching of those same years to this team. And then come and tell me that by trading Renteria for anyone that will bargain with us, tell me with a straight face that this will make the difference in October. I will promise you you that if JS goes through with almost any of these deals the Braves will be just like they were, a one and done offence (darn I can never remember how to spell offence and promise).
A box of Japanese sweets if any of these heretofore mentioned deals improves our record in October. Maybe JS thinks that the whole meaning of the plan is to win the division and then go home?
I know, I know I am making accusations without doing the research, only I have 2 more sets of university papers and exams to grade and those dept. meetings here, before I can relax.
July 24th, 2007 at 3:14 am
^^^ still this is better then gettin silva
July 24th, 2007 at 3:25 am
well i think that blanton is possible but garland has a sinker and cox loves the ground ball pitcher-paronto for ex. and did anyone see davies had 9ks for AAA yesturday if he gets better i still want reyes.
and salty for snell i dont see it happening with this ^^ if this trade goes down smoltz.huddy,james,garland or blanton and reyes or davies.
a pitcher who can fill in the 5th spot for salty aint worth it who’ll play 1st then unless we do the tex trade with the rangers
dont forget noah lowery
July 24th, 2007 at 3:31 am
What about Noah Lowry? I didn’t here any rumors on Noah Lowry. Hopefully JS would ask about him why he is in San Francisco.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:14 am
The A’s don’t want Renteria because he is 1.) old and 2.) not cheap. To move a very cheap and young middle of the rotation starters would take more for a team with a very tight payroll right now.The White Sox are looking for a shortstop because they have no one and Garland is signed for double what Renty is owed basically. By the way, the $3 million buyout is a non-factor as the option will most likely be exercised and the Red Sox would pick it up if it wasn’t.
Are you saying Snell is a fifth starter?
As far as Lowry, the Giants don’t have much motivation to move him. They are out of it this year but he is young and cheap. Why would they trade him?
July 24th, 2007 at 5:51 am
Its a good thing you guys are playing fantasy league Braves and not reality.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:45 am
me?
July 24th, 2007 at 11:13 am
The Braves’ rotation has been pretty good lately while the offense continues to be very inconsistent. Trading a guy who is probably our 2nd best hitter this year for a mediocre starter who would slot in at #4 in our rotation just doesn’t improve the club. Thankfully JS hasn’t done anything so dumb so far.
July 24th, 2007 at 1:08 pm
Regarding the post about Brandon Jones…he reminds me of a young Brian Jordan. If he can play center field, he’ll be a good player. If he’s a corner outfielder, I don’t see him being a whole lot better than league average, unless he develops better secondary skills and power (which is possible).
July 24th, 2007 at 3:09 pm
The price on pitchers is insane right now. Supply and demand my friend because everyone wants them and few are willing to part with them. Garland could post a 3.6-3.8 ERA in the NL I would think and is still relatively young. That is better than Chuck James, so he would become our 3rd starter,
As far as Jones, he is going to be good. Decent plate discipline, power, speed, defense. He has got it all. He may not be great in any one category but he is above average in all of them.
July 24th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
Ive always lobbied on this website and talking chop that KJ and a pitching prospect for Blanton deal would work great. Blanton is a great #3 started and KJ is exactly the type of player that the A’s would want. He also has a cheap contract and can play a number of positions. I would love to see big Blanton holding down the middle of the rotation while James and Burkett, i mean Carlyle, hold down the back end.
July 24th, 2007 at 4:24 pm
The one that really inspires me is the proposed Ian Snell deal. A rotation with Smoltz, Hudson, Snell, James, & Carlyle would be just dandy in my book. It might even be enough, if the boys get hot at the right time (see 2006 Cardinals), to bring home another world championship. It would take a deal with that kind of potential to pry Salty loose. I wouldn’t trade him for anything less than a top of the rotation starter.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:02 pm
I don’t think I’d trade KJ for Blanton. Blanton is good but KJ is one of the best all-around at his position. I know some are going to bash me as a homer for saying that but he has been top 5-6 defensively at his position and to have that kind of production from second base is remarkable.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:26 pm
KJs numbers are so one sided. He cant hit against LHPs, and when he makes an error, it always seems to have a huge impact on the game. He sometimes looks a little shaky out there and it appears that even he is surprised at some of the plays he has made because it should not have turned out the way it did. i would say that for a number 3 starter, Blanton is one of the best at his position too
July 24th, 2007 at 5:35 pm
He is hitting .265 in very limited at bats. That isn’t awful and you see splits like that a lot for batters. Considering you see lefties a lot less normally than righties that is not too bad. He should easily bring that up if he is allowed to get full playing time at second. As far as his defense, he has been one of the top in baseball at his position. He has made some great plays, makes almost all of the routine ones, and has only eight errors on the season. His range has been very good and his instincts have gotten a lot better. If you use it, his rate2 is 116. He has become a very good defender at second. That for a number 3 starter is insane to me. Sorry, but he is one of the top couple second basemen in all of baseball. We are talking about good defense and an OPS nearing .900 from SECOND BASE!
July 24th, 2007 at 5:47 pm
those are nice numbers, but like you said those errors are coming with LIMITED playing time. That. 265 is his career avergage, look at his splits for this year. There is a reason why he is being platooned, since JS has repeatedly stated that Escobar is not on the trading block so its not to showcase him. Im not trying to take anything away from KJ. Love the guy and think he is a great player but he can be replaced. I just dont see him being better that a 6th, maybe 5th spot in the batting order. Take a look at Blanton’s numbers. Hes ony 27 years old, he has excellent command for his age, his BB/K has vastly improved over 3 years(26/90 this year which is stellar), hes on pace to get somewere in the 220+ innings, ERA is 3.53, his ERA+ is 127, WHIP 1.13 and doesnt give up too many HRs. Too me those numbers tell me that he is improving every year he pitches and he could very well become a number 2 pitcher and down the road I wouldnt be surprised if he is starting opening day for the Braves.
and he likes to push around Ichiro which is always a plus
July 24th, 2007 at 5:48 pm
KJ can hit LHP. He hit a triple off one the other day. He hit a homer off Tom Glavine the very first pitch of the game a while back. He can hit LHP and RHP. He gets many hits off both.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:48 pm
im sorry i was confused that is KJ average against LHP this year, his career is .262. But still that number isnt very impressive
July 24th, 2007 at 5:49 pm
Of course he is going to get hits but I believe that Mizike74 was referring to his .311/.265 splits. Still, I think this ridiculous platoon is making people believe Yunel is better against lefties than KJ.
July 24th, 2007 at 5:54 pm
ya but wait until KJ goes into another one of his cold streaks and youll be feeling gusts of wind all day against LHP. KJ is too streaky right now. once he shows some consistancy then he can be considered a top player
July 24th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
He had one really bad stretch and may I remind you that not only is this his first full major league season, but it is his first season ever at second, and he should be showing a lot more fatigue since he worked out at Turner field every day over the off-season. I am shocked he is still hitting and right now he is hitting the cover off the ball. Next year it should be ever better.
July 24th, 2007 at 6:55 pm
Will, as you said, The sellers of pitching, Blanton for our example, are not going to be satisfied with a controversial talent like KJ, for this discussion. MIZIKE74 wants to denigrated KJ’s value for those who want to keep him, yet build up his value if it means including him in a trade for someone. I find this amusing. My point is that, to follow some of Will’s reasoning, the sellers of pitching talent want top and more dollar, and to satisfy that for the people we have discussed means to rob the offence for the sake of pitching. The Braves have done that regularly over the past 10 years which wins a division or a Wild Card, but doesn’t get them even a league championship.
I think JS will probably do the same thing again this year. After all he is a man of patterns just like all of us. I suppose given this team’s several weaknesses, we are not a team capable of winning the WS because we definitely need starting pitching and we definitely would have to give up quality long term offence to get that “magic” starter.
Chipper and Andruw are nearing the end of their careers as Braves, we don’t have equal replacements. Equal replacements mean doing what we are used to the Braves doing. Winning the division/wild card and losing in the post season.
JS won’t hesitate to pull the trade to try to continue that tradition. …I suppose I should learn to be happier than I am. I had such expectations early in May….and I really reallly like Harris, no matter what he does, and I like Salty and Escobar, and and and…..If given a choice of trading one/several of those guys for a pitcher.
No I wouldn’t do it. I would not vote to sell our long term soul for the sake of another win the division/wild card and go home experience. Better 3rd place and keep the team together one more year to find out what we got.
regards from Japan
July 24th, 2007 at 6:55 pm
Will, I agree I would not trade KJ or even Escobar for Blanton!!! And I want Blanton here some kind of bad!!! I think IF we had to we could trade Lillibridge, Davies, Devine, and Dan Smith IF necessary!!! But to say KJ is top defensive player at his position, is just not so!!! He has I think 9 errors in limited time!!! But I do realize this is his first year over there, and he will get BETTER and better every year!!! But I actually LIKE the platoon over at 2nd!!! We have to get Escobar’s bat in the lineup and that is exactly what BC is doing!!! I really believe before the deadline that Salty will be traded, he hardly ever plays anymore!!! And we are not going to send him down!!! It just seems like he will get traded, I could be wrong!!!
July 24th, 2007 at 7:07 pm
Edo, do you mean Chipper will retire a Brave, or leave via free agency?
July 24th, 2007 at 7:47 pm
I would trade Escobar for Blanton without even a second thought but Beane wouldn’t
July 24th, 2007 at 8:02 pm
Ok Will I apologize, I don’t think you know the value of Escobar yet because you and all of us haven’t had time. So go ahead and play fantasy ball.
I meant that Chipper will gradually diminish his presence because of his injuries. I realize his contract. But if his presence is only around 70% He might be a kind of elder statesman platoon player. God Rest His soul.
July 24th, 2007 at 8:05 pm
I can see him as a coach years after he retires.
July 24th, 2007 at 11:51 pm
Edo River, what are you rambling about? Im saying that KJ is high value right now, and I think it will be higher than it will ever be. And that he is exactly the type of player that Billy Beane would go for, so im saying to make the move for Blanton while the A’s are desperately looking for hitting. Where exactly have I built up his value? Are you foreign?
and whats the point for the Braves to play for the future. Why should they hold on to “prospects” when they can get value in a proven player this year. There is no reason for the Braves to be playing for the future right now when they could possibly win right now. Thats why JS is such an accomplished GM, because he knows when to pull the trigger and pick up a Tim Hudson, or and Edgar Renteria (both traded for HIGH PROSPECTS, yet the prospects fizzled) They are second place in the division and the wild card right now, and no one knows what can happen in the playoffs. Youre right, Chipper is close to the end of his career (not Andruw hes like 30) and so is Bobby Cox and JS. Im willing to bet they all want to win this year or next. They arent going to be around in 5 years, and there are always going to be prospects, especially with the Braves scouting. Lets make moves NOW to win NOW. youre so negative, youre life must suck dude.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:08 am
Well, MIZIKE74, this communication by posting makes your online character more likeable than if we were arguing over coffee at Starbucks.
Do you always capitalize NOW?
seriously, you don’t know the value of KJ because of his limited role. You could be getting robbed trading him for Blanton.
secondly lets join in waving our hankies for the Braves bottom of the 9th in SF.
Middle of the afternoon here.
July 25th, 2007 at 12:16 am
i capatilze words whenever i feel the need for them to stand out.
KJ PRETTY MUCH WAS THE EVERYDAY STARTER ALL THE WAY UP TO JUST AROUND THE ALL STAR BREAK, NOT TO MENTION HE GOT A LOT OF PT TWO YEARS AGO IN LEFT FIELD. SO THERE HAS BEEN TIME TO JUDGE HIS POTENTIAL VALUE. AND THE A’S COULD GET ROBBED ALSO. THERE IS NO WAY TO TELL THE VALUE OF A TRADE UNLESS THE TRADE IS MADE.
AND I DONT GO TO STARBUCKS OR CARRY HANKIES, IM NOT A YUPPIE
July 25th, 2007 at 5:05 am
What am I missing for Yunel? What exactly do you think he’ll be? Good defense and a mediocre bat. That isn’t a dime a dozen. For some reason people seem to think he is going to be this great offensive player. Yes, his average is good but average is a very small part of the picture. His .338 OBP with that average is pretty bad and his .392 SLG is just miserable. He just isn’t a player that will really add much more to his power or discipline. He is pretty much a completed product, not a tools guy who hasn’t really come into his own yet. Yes, he’ll be a decent shortstop but he is easily worth the likes of Blanton, especially with the kind of depth this team has at shortstop.
July 25th, 2007 at 5:19 am
Guys, sorry about the lack of recaps right now. I am still jet-lagged so I can’t make it past 9:30 right now so with the west coast games, I just haven’t been able to watch.
July 25th, 2007 at 6:42 am
So will, I like your comment about Yunel, because that means he isn’t worth trade bait. So we keep him, fine.
MIzIke74, If KJ is as bad as you say, that’s fine with me, So we can’t rob anyone, and he stays with the Braves too, ALSO fine with me. I’m happy why aren’t you?
July 25th, 2007 at 7:38 am
No, people are always looking for young talent. Yunel is going to have a good major league career and for a team that doesn’t have a very good option or any at short, which is quite a few, he is of interest. His offense is average at best but his defense is very good. That is more than a lot of teams have. The Braves however have Renteria, Andrus, and Lillibridge who all are either better or have higher upsides than Yunel. We don’t have that much of a need for him but he could be traded to fill in another need. Even this platoon is insane. He is just about as good a hitter against lefties as KJ is.
July 25th, 2007 at 8:44 am
Yeah, I agree with Will, Yunel Escobar just looks like a slightly above average player. While I know we haven’t had too much time to judge him, I see him in his BEST year having a .300 average, 15 HRs, 60 Rbis, and about 90 runs. But more than likely he’ll never be anything more than a soft hitting, not particularly fast, .270-.280 #7 hitter with an excellent glove. On a bad team, he’ll be a solid #2 hitter but for a good team definitely #7. KJ on the other hand has the ability to be an excellent #2 or #5 guy with a high average, good power, 90-100 Rbi guy with 100+ runs every year. At second base, I think he develops into Chase Utley-lite. I really don’t want to lose him whereas I’m ok with losing Escobar.
July 25th, 2007 at 8:47 am
I keep hearing about Teixeira , the one thing that concerns me is the disparity between his home and away batting. Other than last year there’s a huge difference. He’ll be leaving a hitter’s paradise and coming to a more balanced park. I’m not sure this guy is everything he’s cracked up to be. He’s a definite: “Buyer Beware”.
July 25th, 2007 at 1:34 pm
Edo River, you seem to think that by me saying a certain player needs to be traded, then I must think they are bad. In no way shape or form have I ever said KJ is a bad player. I think his value is high enough right now where if we trade him, we can possibly get more back in return. that is all. i have also said the only time the Braves should trade KJ is if it is to the A’s for Blanton (or maybe DiNardo), otherwise the Braves should keep him and continue him on his path of being a potential all star. But since the Braves are so backed up at the middle infield there is a lot of room for JS to explore for a trade.
anyways im far too excited at the news from certain scouts that the Braves are the front runner for Tex. Now Edo River, I think tha the Braves should trade Salty folr him, but I dont think Salty is a bad player!
July 25th, 2007 at 6:08 pm
Hello my fellow bloggers this deewill23 here telling you to check out my first blog site at deewill23.blogspot.com. Tell me how you think about it and I will try to aprove on it.
July 25th, 2007 at 7:50 pm
Dude, just stop it!
July 25th, 2007 at 8:08 pm
If you have followed the Braves there is this continual restless search for marginal improvement. Why marginal? because no one is going to willingly trade you a great player from their team for mediocre or declining talent from “ours”. Why is that? Well the other teams have bloggers like Will and MIZIKE74 who are just as sharp as we are. Of course lightening does strike occasionally in the same place. A columnist will always talk about “fire sales” and “teams out of the running who want to get rid of top talent for a song”. How often does that happen?
And then there is this:
With the July 31st deadline now less than a week away, both the local and national media are beginning to go into a frenzy over the Mark Teixeira trade rumors. FOXSports.com’s Ken Rosenthal touched extensively on the possibility of a Teixeira-to-Atlanta deal earlier today, saying that Braves GM John Schuerholz will likely have to part with top prospect Jarrod Saltalamacchia to get a deal done.
Rosenthal also says the Angels are in deep on Teixeira, and that the Rangers believe there’s a “50-50″ chance he’ll be dealt before the deadline. SI.com’s Jon Heyman has a very good rundown of the teams interested in Teixeira, with GM Jon Daniels saying that the offers on Teixeira are “improving.” That’s in stark contrast to Buster Olney’s piece on ESPN.com, who quotes rival executives that believe the Rangers’ asking price on Teixeira is coming down.
Finally, MLB.com’s Jim Molony published an article earlier today, which stated that according to multiple major league sources, trade talks involving Teixeira have “intensified” in the last 24 hours. Personally, I believe the chances of Teixeira being dealt are rapidly ballooning; this will probably go down to the wire, but I wouldn’t be real surprised if we saw a deal commence in the next 48 to 72 hours.
1:40 AM Update: According to an article released in the last couple of hours by MLB.com’s Mark Bowman, the Atlanta Braves have emerged as the favorites to land Teixeira. A Major League scout confirmed that a deal was in the works, and that Saltalamacchia would “almost definitely” be included, as well as possibly pitching prospect Jo-Jo Reyes and phenom shortstop prospect, Elvis Andrus. The fireworks are about to begin, folks.”
I tell you Texeria is not worth Salty, Jo-Jo, and Andrus. This sounds like JS is about to move his hand downward and make a move. Again I say we have too many holes for giving a 3 for 1 trade like this. This is not going to solve the Braves pitching problems!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
At least you folks have been discussing pitching.
July 25th, 2007 at 8:13 pm
Corey, who were you addressing?
July 25th, 2007 at 8:36 pm
deewill. I’m not mad that he’s posting his blog, but he did it at Talking Chop, PSD forums (it got deleted) and now here!
July 25th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
didn’t you do the same when you started?
July 25th, 2007 at 8:59 pm
Not in every place. I didn’t go to PSD an say it. I didn’t say anything to Talking Chop, I just made it my sig. I only said it to you once, and when Todd asked. BTW, I passed your blog in numbers of visits, but you were only on there a month before you came here. I’ve been there two months, and have like 105 posts. and Todd is now a frequent commenter along with his son JJ.
July 25th, 2007 at 9:12 pm
I have no idea what you are talking about. And I thought you said you went to school with todd. How does he have a son?
July 25th, 2007 at 9:14 pm
No! I went to school with Michael and I’m talking about deewill’s posting
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