7/7 Game Thread: Nadal Beats Fed– Wait, Did the Braves Just Win in Extras?
There were two fairly remarkable sporting events yesterday. Thanks to rain and extended play, both went more than 6 hours from their original supposed start time. And both had a rather unexpected conclusion: Rafael Nadal shocked Roger Federer in 5 sets (including a 9-7 final set in the only tournament that refuses to allow a fifth set to be decided by a tiebreak), and the Braves pulled out a sort of win I thought I’d never see again: a, ugly, messy, injury-laden 17-inning slog that I still can’t believe we didn’t lose. We beat the Astros! In extra innings!
The Braves been pretty bad in extra-inning games this year, recalling the catastrophic end of our 2005 season at the Astros’ hands. Despite going 8-3 in extra frames in 2006, we were 6-9 last year and are 2-7 this year, for a three-year total of 16-19.
Usually it’s not as lopsided as it’s been this year or as it was in 2006. From 2000 to 2005, we were 38-46 in extras, but each year we were either at .500, 1 game below .500, or 2 games below .500. In fact, while we were above .500 every year from 1991 to 1994, +11 overall, there were only two seasons from 1995 to 2007 in which we had more wins in extras than losses. One of those seasons was the insanely fluky 1999, in which we were 17-5; the other was 2006. In every other year we either broke even or lost more than we won. Since 1995, we’re 89-92, but if you exclude the outlier in 1999, we’re 72-87 in the past 13 seasons. Last night’s miracle may not be enough to change that.
In other news, Jeff Francoeur is back. This is, it hardly needs to be said, a terrible decision. He was sent down because his offense this year pointed to the fact that his mechanics are terrible; after he was sent down, he whined about it. Three days later, after going 7-13 in AA, hardly a large enough sample size or a competitive enough league to prove he’s suddenly going to be able to be a productive major leaguer, he’s been recalled, and his petulant whining looks like it paid off.
Whether or not you agreed with his being sent down, the Braves handled this poorly. If they truly believed that he was far enough out of whack that his problems could not be fixed at the major league level — and I absolutely agree — then they need to be able to stick with it long enough to be able to correct the physical problems that were leading to his incredibly poor performance this year, both fielding and hitting. Three days, obviously, is not long enough to correct anything.
If this was merely a chastisement, though, Francoeur was right to be annoyed. In his announcement, Wren seemed to imply that he believed Francoeur’s problems were purely mental: “All the reports we got from [Mississippi’s staff] said that he was smiling, having fun and being relaxed at the plate… That’s really all we wanted him to do.” This is very unlikely to be the case, both because his career numbers are below replacement-level for a corner outfielder, and because his mechanics may be irreparably bad. Smiling and relaxing won’t fix subpar bat speed and poor swing mechanics.
I think what happened is that the Braves made the right baseball move, but were too tentative to stick to their guns. Reports circulated that they were afraid to send him down because he was a fan favorite, and even when they did manage to send him down, they still weren’t convinced enough that it was the right move to stick with it. If they really felt that going 7-13 in AA showed that he had nothing more to learn at that level, they should have sent him to Richmond for the first time in his career. Let him finally earn his way to the major leagues, instead of being called up as an injury replacement, just like he was as a rookie.
Simply a botch job. To make room for Francoeur, the Braves DL’ed the re-injured Infante (our best bench player), Manny Acosta (a poor pitcher, but a warm body on a bullpen that’s had trouble holding onto its warm bodies), and Jeff Bennett (who really hasn’t been good since May). Along with Francoeur, the Braves called up Vladimir Nunez, who is terrible, and Brent Lillibridge, who has not shown for a single second that he is capable of playing in the major leagues. (Neither has Corky Miller, for that matter. We really, really need someone who’s capable of backing up Brian McCann, who has now started 77 of the Braves’ 89 games, and made appearances in 6 others. He is not being backed up, he is not being rested, and Corky Miller makes Jeff Francoeur look like Albert Pujols.) I’m not thrilled by our callups, but we don’t have any other backup SS, and Phil Stockman and Zach Schreiber got themselves injured again, so there were no obvious pitchers to call up.
Dodgers tonight. Hiroki Kuroda vs. the Garbageman, Jorge Campillo. Kuroda pitched us pretty well the last time out, giving up 2 runs on 7 hits in 6 innings’ work on April 20, but lost the game 2-1. Campillo has never faced the Dodgers, which could help; he’s tended to do very well against people who have never seen him before. Let’s carry some momentum from last night.
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31 Responses to “7/7 Game Thread: Nadal Beats Fed– Wait, Did the Braves Just Win in Extras?”
July 7th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
This whole thing makes the Braves look silly. Frenchy had good games on Friday and Sunday, but he’s only been gone for 3 days. What was the real point of all this? And how can they be sure 3 days did the job? I’m seriously doubting this was a smart move.
And I agree with Alex on Corky Miller. Being a Parkview girl, I’d like to see Clint Sammons up, but I’m not sure he’d do any better. Worth a try though!
July 7th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Syndrome will lead us to victory! He is our rally villain. All hail the mighty Syndrome!
July 7th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
This whole Francoeur mess has put the Braves in a terrible position. The problem is that the average fan really doesn’t recognize just how bad Frenchy has been, so when the Braves made this move they were ridiculed by the very people they were trying to please. I was at lunch today with several co-workers, all of whom are casual Braves fans, and they all thought I was crazy when I said that Francoeur has never been above average. It’s strange, but Atlanta fans have a mental block when it comes to Jeff Francoeur, and we all beleive deep down that he is actually a super star. If this were happening to Kelly Johnson, for example, no one would care if we sent him down and called him up. But despite the fact that Kelly Johnson has been significantly more productive than Frenchy over the past two seasons, people still view him as an average hitter and Frenchy as building block of the future.
I am not saying the Braves did this right, because obviously three days in the minors is not enough to fix anything. But to be honest, I don’t really blame Wren and Company for the decision. They have a responsibility to the fans and the truth is a lot of people buy tickets to go see Jeff Francoeur. This game is for the fans isn’t it? And if we’re not going anywhere this year (in all likelihood) then there was no reason to waste the Golden Boy down in Mississippi when he could be bringing in fan support in Atlanta.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Well, All this won’t do the team or Francoeur any good. This is just part of the season for a floundering club. This kind of action does reveal the disorder in management however. I kind of suspected what Brent had to say was true, but I didn’t have any data. I think Wren must have been getting alot of feedback. I think BC is probably equally annoyed. Of course this action won’t change our fortunes one way or another. Maybe if Francoeur gets 2 hits in the next few days there will be some glowing reports of “turning the corner” on the AJC web site.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
One point, which the author of the articles to which you’ve linked stresses: Francoeur has plenty of bat speed (even above-average bat speed), he just takes far too long a path to the ball.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
can we stop it with the syndrome thing? I’ve seen at least a dozen sports south games this year and in the vast majority, syndrome was mentioned, and there were certainly some losses in there.
July 7th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
And to make things worse. The Braves just played seventeen innings, got on the plane, flew cross country for the privilege of playing the Dodgers who have won seven out of ten and five out of their last six playing at home in Chavez Ravine. It’s gonna get ugly.
July 7th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
First of all I have to say that the column was very interesting. I enjoyed reading it very much. Also, thank you for your comment telemakhos. I have seen Syndrome several times, and the only thing I enjoyed about him was his resemblance to Jon Sciambi. But I am not against putting my hopes into something besides our starting lineup. Who know this could be am alternative to the rally cap for us. We needed that win, and praise be to Acosta for running out the play, although I have seen many disappointments in his pitching, he is a ball player and that is what we need. My hopes are still high and thoughts run deep. Go braves
July 7th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
Thanks, J Force.
Stu, you’re right about the bat speed, and the swingtraining guy makes a better distinction than I do. Concerns about Frenchy’s bat speed have been raised; we’ve been hearing the phrase “slider-speed” about his bat for some time now. However, you’re right: the point is not that he can’t swing fast enough to catch up to a fastball, it’s that he can’t react fast enough to catch up to a fastball if he hadn’t already started his swing motion. His top speed is not in question; his acceleration is.
July 7th, 2008 at 10:51 pm
Whispers of the Dodgers maybe willing to include Matt Kemp in a deal for Jack Wilson have me thinking, what price would you put on certain players that you’d prefer not to trade? I’d do Yunel and loose change for Kemp and a little more change, even though I’d rather keep Escobar. This could be a fun experiment: find the worst player/prospect you’d trade any of our current players for. The only guys I’d have an impossible time parting with are McCann and Chipper, but that’s because Brian is the most valuable catcher in baseball and Chipper means too much to our franchise. Anyone want to play along?
July 7th, 2008 at 11:35 pm
I can’t believe we’re being no-hit through 6 innings. Hiroki Kuroda is no-hitting us. He’s pitching a no-hitter.
No-hitter no-hitter no-hitter!
Argh!
July 7th, 2008 at 11:52 pm
How about that no hitter??? It always seems the case, the pitching is there no offense! The offense is there no defense. Hats off to Campillo. I could say rally cap, but I will go with Syndrome “Action Figure”!!!
July 8th, 2008 at 12:20 am
Speaking of ugly…….one hit and done. Shut out zero to three. Why am I not surprised !
July 8th, 2008 at 12:45 am
So… when does the Football season starts!!!…..this braves season has been SOOOOO boring….zzzZzzzz…the got into hibernation mode when they left from Spring Training, then Injuries mismanagement happened and there goes the Season…i say the Braves finish 78-84…and thats a reach…after ALL!! we have to face the FACT that this is a SUB-.500 this season and has been in the last few years,BARELY a .500 team…that DOESNT WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS….Mediocrity will take the Braves NOWHERE…except 4th or LAST place in the NL…
July 8th, 2008 at 12:47 am
I don’t think I’d want kemp at this point. He’s pretty overrated, and we have a lot of outfield prospects, but not many infield prospects.
July 8th, 2008 at 12:53 am
on a positive note, Jeff Locke pitched 7 innings of 3 hit ball, while heyward went 2 for 4 with 2 rbi and freddie freeman went 2 for 5 with a triple and 1 rbi on the way to an 8-2 win for rome.
July 8th, 2008 at 2:59 am
Hey guys, Brian McCann is on pace to start 142 games which is about ten more than he started in 2007. That said, if Mac goes down with an injury later on this season, I’ll be the first one to call for the immediate firing of Bobby Cox.
There is no way that Brian McCann can keep up with this workload. Hell, Javy Lopez never played more than 138 games total in any one season during the twelve years while he was in Atlanta and Johnny Estrada topped out at 134 total.
McCann started 118 games and played in 130 total in 2006.
McCann started 130 games and played in 139 in 2007.
He has played in 84 games so far (started 78) in 2008 and is on pace to start 142 and play in 150.
Cox is abusing his starting catcher and now everybody who reads this blog can say they are aware of the emerging drama.
July 8th, 2008 at 7:35 am
Coach, the problem isn’t Cox’s. There’s no one on the team who can back up McCann. Corky Miller is not a major league player, and he’s our backup catcher. Clint Sammons is struggling to stay above the AAA Mendoza line. These guys make Todd Pratt look like Mike Piazza.
There is no one that Bobby can start to give McCann a rest. That’s something Wren has to take care of.
July 8th, 2008 at 8:07 am
I have to respect a pitcher who 1 hits anyone. I tip my hat to the Dodgers. I mentioned that over the next two series (Dodgers and Padres, I am really hoping for 2 wins. I think its a reasonable expectation.
We are an aggressive swinging team. This has always been the philosophy, Just look at the stats. It would not surprise me to learn that the braves have been held to 3 hits or less more often than all but a very few clubs over the past 10 years.
Does anyone know how to research this data? I am not complaining because I assume there is justification of this strategy or they wouldn’t do it, the anti-Yankees approach perhaps? So, it comes with the team, Go Braves.
July 8th, 2008 at 10:00 am
Nice post, Alex. I think that’s an important clarification re bat speed. Frenchy’s swing takes such a long time that it’s no wonder he can’t recognize breaking pitches until after he’s started his swing. His swing isn’t very smooth, either
July 8th, 2008 at 10:45 am
Here’s some good news, at least: the Braves just signed their top two draft picks, Brett DeVall and Robert Stovall, and outfielder Adam Milligan, whom we’ve been drafting for years. The draft class hinged on some signability issues, including DeVall, so this is really good to hear.
July 8th, 2008 at 11:26 am
Tex you’re the man saving BravesNation from being no-hit for the 1st time since 04, when the Big Unit no hit the Braves at the Ted,gotta tip your hat off to Tex who saved the night last night and those L.A Dodgers thought they had that no-hitter, in their wildest dreams.Go BravesNation.
July 8th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Lets hope some of this young talent we have now in the lower minor leagues grows up fast and gets to the bigs.
July 8th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Alex, there are plenty of catchers on the market right now who can run circles around Corky Miller with the bat. Such as Yorvit Torrealba, Paul Lo Duca and Ronny Paulino. The Braves have as of yet made no effort to find a suitable backup behind McCann who won’t embarrass himself offensively.
Cox is to blame for this situation because it is his DIRECT responsibility as the manager to see to it that the team has two able catchers who can play everyday if needed.
I have already stated that McCann’s current game pace is impossible and if he gets hurt because of overuse, I’m not going to let Cox off the hook. He is the manager, Cox is ultimately responsible.
July 8th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Coach, Bobby isn’t the guy who assembles the team. He certainly has plenty of influence with Wren, and it’s very possible that he would be able to influence Wren’s urgency in rectifying the situation, but Wren is the person who assembles the 25-man roster. Bobby’s just the guy who fills out the names and tells them where they play and when. If any of those names cannot play baseball at a major league level, then Wren has to be held accountable.
July 8th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
Where was syndrome last night when we almost got no-hit ????
July 8th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
Yep, Syndrome is the key for a Braves victory!! LOL
July 8th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
Actually, I think the Braves just have trouble winning on days ending in “y.”
July 8th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
Hey guys, I just heard that we signed Julian “The Big Angry Man” Tavarez. I really like the idea as a bullpen fix, and he only costs money. He could even make a spot start. I think this is a really wise move by the front office with our young rotation and our bullpen in a rough state.
July 8th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
Wow, huge hot stove stuff going on today. Cubs just made a move and got Rich harden….one would imagine as a knee-jerk reaction to the Sabathia move by Milwaukee. I think it is a little shaky at best, for the A’s to move like that the Cubs must have really mortgaged their future. That could really hurt the Cubs later.
More Braves stuff as well. Per mlbtraderumors.com:
“Bowman says Braves GM Frank Wren isn’t finding a reasonable deal for a power-hitting outfielder, but he’s also disappointed by the Mark Teixeira market.”
Therefore we can deduce that Tex is on the market, or at least that Wren is listening to offers. Now that a big chunk of the starting pitching is off of the market, the Tex market could heat up fast. The Red Sox, Dodgers, and Angels are mentioned.
Tim Dierkes of mlbtraderumors mentions Youk-for-Tex, as well as Kotchman and Loney. The more I think about the idea the more I like the Youk thing. Having a patient hitter like Youk could change some of the culture of this team in a way that the Braves really need it.
July 8th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
The fireworks are starting a little early. That’s good for us, maybe. NL Central is beefiing up. That’s good for baseball for these kinds of mega trades are what fantasy owners enjoy. Maybe the reason Francoeur was brought back so quickly was to help prove his marketablity? If he were to make a few hits, it might be worth something.
This is the only think I can think of to cover management for the embarassment of the past week with Francoeur.
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