All-Star Break Discussion: You’re the GM
With just about two weeks left to go until the non-waiver trade deadline, it seems like a perfect time to discuss what Frank Wren should do. The Braves are 45-50 heading into the break, sitting 6.5 games back from the Phillies in the NL East. The Braves have been mum on whether they intend to be buyers or sellers at this year’s deadline but there is a rumor that Frank Wren was turned down on a proposal of Mark Teixeira for Kevin Youkilis and Craig Hansen.
The question is: If you were the GM of the Braves, what moves would you make leading up to the deadline?
This can include trades, demotions, promotions, etc. The only rule is that you have to make it believable (no trades of Mark Teixeira to the Dodgers for Clayton Kershaw, James Loney, and Matt Kemp).
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72 Responses to “All-Star Break Discussion: You’re the GM”
July 14th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
The funny thing about that Gammons’ report is that I don’t think the Red Sox would trade Youk for Teix straight up at this point. I mean, Kevin is having the better season by far and, historically, simply has less power than Mark while matching or surpassing him in every other aspect of the game. Moreover, he’s under team control for some while longer and Boras is already signaling that he wants 8+ years at $23M per year or so, By the way, I know he won’t get that, but that starting point is absurd enough to scare away any potential trade partners.
As Braves GM, I’d look to acquire a righthanded power bat that can play LF and possibly 1B after this season. That would make our likely trade partner the Pittsburgh Pirates, with Xavier Nady as the primary target and Jason Bay as the secondary one. I realize the price will be steep, but as long as it doesn’t doesn’t cost us an elite prospect, I’d be willing to consider it. If that gets out of hand, I might just go for Adam Dunn of the Reds (who is not getting much attention on the market) or look into signing Barry Bonds at the minimum, both of those being one year LF solutions.
Beyond that, I’d like to see us settle into the following bullpen: Gonzalez, Ohman, Stockman, Boyer, Ring, Carlyle and whomever they wish to us as a mop-up guy at the moment. Acquiring a true set-up man would be nice, but I don’t think it’d be necessary. I think a rotation of Hudson, Campillo, Jurrjens, Reyes and Glavine/Hampton/Morton will be fine as well, so no real need to make an acquisition there. If Glav and Hampty are both out, we could look to acquire Maddux on the cheap.
July 14th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
Move Teixeira. If the Boston wants to give up the Youk, I’d be all over that.
I’d make Frenchy an available player. He’s the only RF in baseball that is his team’s 7th or 8th best offensive player. But some dumb GM will see all those #7 jerseys in the stands and want him. Frenchy for Jason Bay.
Whatever the trades made, can we get a 2nd string catcher as part of a deal. McCann is going to die before the year is over. Don’t the Braves remember Jody Davis and the effect of catching too many games early.
Which young players should be considered off limits: Jurrjens, Escobar, McCann?
July 14th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
I’d trade tex, maybe for youkilis and a prospect, but in general not for veterans. I’d trade will ohman for whatever I could get. I’d release Julian Tavarez, Corky Miller, and Ruben Gotay. Bring up Sammons to be the backup catcher.
July 14th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Trade Francouer for a guy like Anthony Reyes that the Braves are high on. We have amazing outifeld prospects so i wouldnt want one in return. I would try to get Youkilas and maybe another guy for Tex. That wouldnt make our team worse i dont think. Id try to also get a guy like Nady or Ryan Freel.
July 14th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
Youkilis for Teixeira equates to 1-1=0. That is why Theo Epstein killed it. The Red Sox are trying to add another big bat, a lefty reliever and some help at SS due to Julio Lugo hitting the D.L. for 4-6 weeks.
The Red Sox have one of the most productive farm systems in the game, why not package Mark Teixeira and Will Ohman together? The Braves could receive anywhere from three to five prospects in return.
Names like Justin Masterson 6-6 RHP, 2006 2nd round pick.
Michael Bowden 6-3 RHP, 2007 1st round pick.
Brandon Moss 6-0 OF bats lefty, 2002 8th round pick.
Lars Anderson 6-4 1B bats lefty, 2006 18th rounder.
Daniel Bard 6-4 RHP, 2006 1st round pick and
Chris Carter 6-0 1B/OF, bats lefty, 2004 17th round pick come to mind.
July 14th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
BRING UP SAMMONS NOW !!!, thade tex str8 up for youk !!, trade frenchy 4 Nady !!! Then bring up Brandon Jones. Get rid of Tavarres and Corky !!!
July 14th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
To begin with, I would leave Mike Hampton and Tom Glavine off the team. They are not going to be more effective than the 5 guys we have going right now, so we might as well keep trying to develop Morton at the big league level. If Jurjjens, Reyes, Campillo or Morton reaches a number of innings where we feel the need to shut them down, then I would turn to one of the old guys.
If we could land a couple of good prospects for Tex I would take it right away, just as I’d take Youk straight up if that was offered. But obviously we should only take a trade we find more valuable then the two picks we would get if he leaves via free agency.
I think a move that would be particularly interesting would be to shop Tim Hudson. He would land a truly elite group of prospects, since he very good and relatively inexpensive for the next few years. Tim isn’t 28 anymore, and he is beginning to show signs of slowing down. I know he is the key to our pitching staff right now, but I’d be interested to see what kind of package teams would offer for him (an elite pitching prospect like Bucholtz or Cueto along with a few others for example).
We could be pretty good in 2009 if we go out and make some quality acquisitions. The one thing we shouldn’t do is trade any more of the future for a shot this year. We simply do not have the talent to compete this year, so lets start stockpiling for 09 and beyond. We should at least have good pitching next year.
July 14th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
Platoon Lillibridge and kj @ second……….Lilli is starting to hit like a big leaguer……
July 14th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
The Braves currently have the best era in the NL at 3.68, the best by .2, and w/ Hampton “coming back” soon after the all-star break, i would’t touch the pitching staff. But if Hampton does come back, uve got 2 move Jo-Jo back down to the minors instead of Charlie Morton.
Secondly, why in the world would you trade big Tex?!!!!!!!!!!!!! He’s putting up huge #s and i can’t think of a better available 1st basemen. Sure, u might get a descent 1st basemen in Youkilis and a minor league prospect or 2, but us spoiled Braves fans are getting restless and are not in the mood to rebuild. I agree that uve got 2 get a bigger bat in there, but not at right field. Francouer is young and very talented (in my opinion the best defensive fight fielder in the game w/ that rocket arm of his.), he’s just going througha slump right now. Plus he’s a HUGE crowd favorite. You trade Francouer and you’ll have nothing but thousands of angry Braves fans. I say you trade Kelley Johnson, Corkey Miller, some guys out of the overcrowded bullpen, and a prospect or 2 for Brandon Philips. He’s fast, he’s got some pop in his bat and he’s not too bad on defense. I think he’d be a perfect fit for the Braves. He’s an exciting, emotional guy who we’ll bring that extra bit of pop the Braves lineup that they so desperately need. If you could I’d also trade for a better outfielder. If you look at the Braves farm system, its stock piled w/ young talent in the outfield, and in my opinion, we’ve got too many outfielders neway. So, if i were Frank Wren I’d go after a guy like Nick Markakis of the struggling Baltimore Orioles who are pretty much out of the AL East. Offer the O’s Diaz, Lillibridge(we’ve got too many ss as it is!), Jo Jo Reyes( I’m banking on the fact that Hampton IS coming back after the all star break.), and Greg Norton. He’s a good young balanced player that would again bring some more pop to Atlanta’s lineup. Both of these guys will also give us some much needed pop to the lineup once Tex makes his inevitable exit.
If either one of these trades occur, I see the Braves making a huge run and barely beating out the Phils for the pennant.
July 14th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
They ain’t comin’ back this year. No way to surpasse 3 teams. The time to rebuild and evaluate for the future is now.
1. I don’t see the huge numbers that Tex is putting up. I count 7 first basemen in the National League with higher slugging percentages. Besides, the Braves have a losing record since he came on board. While I don’t think he’s the problem, I don’t see him as the solution either. Any value for him, would be better than the couple of draft picks we’ll get when he walks at the end of the year.
2. Frenchy is an average player who now carries some emotional baggage from a 3 day minor league stint. Move him while there’s still someone out there who believes he’s more than he is. After next year, it’ll be a difficult sell.
3. Phillips for Johnson is interesting. They’re numbers are remarkably similar. Phillips is a year older and has the advantage of hitting in a little league park. Move him to a real park and suddenly he doesn’t look so exciting.
4. I’d let Hampton pitch one game then release him so the team can start evaluating for next year.
July 14th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
I also agree w/ EJRUIZ on the fact that we NEED to stop bouncing around in the bullpen. Wren, find 5 guys that u like( i like Tavarez, Ring, Boyer, Gonzales, and Carlyle, by the way. Dump Tavarez if we get Soriano back soon enough.) And maybe one other guy and dump the rest. Us fans are restless, we want a descent season! I also agree on trading 4 Nady or Bay, i just don’t think it’ll happen. However, i don’t like the idea of Dunn. The only thing he’s got is power. The Braves need a more well rounde guy than that. If Frank Wren doesn’t get another bat in there soon, I’m gonna go crazy! Also, of Oakland would be dumb enough to trade us Duchscherer, jump on it! That’d b the oly thing I’d be willing to trade Tex for. Of course then we’d have to go out and get another 1st basemen. I’d go for Youkalis in that situation. Again, I’d try to clear out the outfield and bullpen for him, maybe a prospect or 2.
July 14th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Trade Frenchy to whomever-KC has young pitching(Greinke as a potential closer) and I know we can never have enough or move him in a deal to Pittsburgh for Bay–Bay under contract through next year–or do you send him to Colorado for Holiday
As for Tex, trade him but in the offseason, offer him 7 seven years and 20 million, if he says no we tried, he is not worth the money Boras wants and many GMs are getting wise to the, well I have an offer from Team X, problem is there is no team X, Personally I would love Youk because he plays with passion, we need more of that and Tex is just not that clutch
Sign Will Oham now, he is good and wants to be here, if Soriano comes back and shows anything the last few weeks, trade him also
Rotation next year will be young but worth it
As for the person who said go after Markinsas(sp) that would be a great pickup but the O’s are hard to deal with
July 14th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Oh yeah, before we get too excited about the over stocked bullpen…remember there’s no Boyer next year. He can expect the same fate as Moylan as a result of the over use.
July 14th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
How about Texiera for Clayton Kershaw, James Loney, and Matt Kemp
July 14th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
Before I comment, let me say I have been a Braves fan since the 1950s, in which time I have seen two World Series titles (one by Bobby Bragan in Milwaukee, the other by Bobby Cox in Atlanta). My favorite Braves have been Warren Spahn, John Smoltz, and Hank Aaron. I have see a lot of ups and downs, and I (like everyone else here) like the winning seasons better than the losing seasons. If there was a reasonable move that would put the Braves in the postseason playoffs, I would be in favor of it.
The term “the elephant in the living room” is meant to describe an obvious factor that everyone is explicitly ignoring in a discussion.
So far, I believe this discussion is overlooking a key point. It is this. The Braves are 6 1/2 games out of first place in the NL East Division at the All Star break, but they are also tenth in the NL in the W-L standings with a 45-50 record. That latter fact is the “elephant in the living room”, because it means the Braves will not win the Wildcard. In order to reach postseason play this season, the Braves will have to catch the Mets, Marlins, and Phillies and win the NL East Division Pennant.
So far this season, the Braves are 1-8 against the Phillies. The Braves and Phillies will play 9 more games in the second half. Six of those games will be played in Philadelphia. I have news for you guys. With 67 games left to play, and a 6 11/2 game deficit to make up, he Braves won’t be catching the Phillies in 2008. Is it metaphysically impossible? No. But the reasonable people among us all know it isn’t going to happen for this team this year with John Smoltz on the sideline and Chipper Jones nursing a tender quad.
Therefore, I would like to see the Braves position themselves as competitors for upcoming seasons. I am against any moves that involve giving up prospects with major league ceilings from the Braves farm system. I hope Frank Wren moves Mark Teixeira and Will Ohman this month in return for the best packages of prospects he can acquire. Ohman would be easy to move. With a high price tag and Scott Boras as his agent, Teixeira might not be as easy to move, and I’m having a hard time identifying a contender who matches uip well with the Braves for Teixeira. But if I was Wren, I would try to move Teixeira this month fopr prospects anyway. The simple fact is this. Teixeira is of more value to the Braves as a trade chip for prospects than as their starting first baseman, because the Braves won’t catch the Phillies and Teixeira will not re-sign with the Braves.
I woulod also shop Tim Hudson. I’m not saying I would trade Hudson, though. The Braves control Hudson’s contract for several more seasons, which makes him a valuable commodity to the Braves, as well as to potential trade partners. I would hesitate to part with Hudson now, but I would do it reluctantly if the package is compelling enough.
The bottom line here is that the Braves will not make the postseason playoffs this year. The scenarios that support that kind of unrealistic optimism pale in the face of the facts. It is time for the Braves to retool for the future. I believe Wren already knows this, and I am becoming more confident he won’t do anything foolish here.
July 14th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
Messenger, your message is the same as Coach’s, and I think the reasonable people here expect Wren to do something before the end of July to advance our future. I would easily trade Francoeur, Tex, and shop Hudson as you say his value is the highest its going to get.
you have to trade quality plus potential to get potential. No one is going to trade for junk and give away quality.
July 14th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
Why would the braves want to trade frenchy now, in the midst of his worst season, just after a stint in the minors? His value has never been lower. You wouldn’t get anyone that has as much major league production or as high of a ceiling as Frenchy.
As far as rebuilding for the future, I think the braves need to target 2010 as the year to aim for. This year is obviously not going as planned and next year the only real differences will be no tex, glavine, or hampton, and possibly the addition of schafer. I don’t think those balance too well. Sure, jojo, jurrjens, and morton will all be a year older and a year better. For those that think morton is better than reyes right now is delusional. Look at the games that they’ve had. Reyes has continued to improve throughout the year and Morton has all of 4 or 5 major league starts. In 2010, guys like Hanson, Heyward, Gorkys Hernandez, and freddie freeman should all be banging on the door, and while they might not all make it to the big leagues or be productive in the majors by then, 2010 should be the jumping off point.
July 14th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
Morton is much better. I will admit Reyes has had his moments of briliance, but lately he has been allowing way too many big innings. Right now Reyes is going to continue to lose control of his ability to throw in the strike zone, Morton isn’t. Case in point.
Bistro, how can you compare Philips’s 15 hr., 58 RBIs and 104 hits to Johnson’s 8 hr., 38 RBIS, and 85 hits, and Philips is much faster and gutsy. I don’t care what ballpark ur in, Philip’s is the better player, hands down.
You people act like the season’s almost over! There’s 67 games left in the season, people! There’s still plenty of time to win this div. Remember last yrs Phils, everyone thought that they were out of it, and look at what happened. They went on a run the last couple weeks of the season. When everyone thought that they were out, did they panic and sell of Utley and Hamels and Howad? No! They stuck w/ it and look at what happened, they won the NL East last yr and are leading it now at the conventional half way point of the season. Don’t count the Braves out so soon!
Ya’ll are a whole bunch of pansies!
July 14th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
Ya’ll also forget that the Phils are struggling and the mets were playing .500 ball just a couple weeks ago. The Marlins are young and will soon follow the Rays as young teams to fall apart. This div is still up for grabs.
July 14th, 2008 at 7:30 pm
All the Braves need is another bat in the outfield to eliminate the # of one run losses.( Braves starting outfield combines for 14 hr… unacceptable). If we had played .500 ball in one run games, we’d be atop our div.
July 14th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
I say if Hampton doesn’t produce soon, trade him. Some idiot team would jump at the chance to take a bargain w/ the injury prone former Cy Young award winner. That’s another way 2g a big bat. It’s not like Frank Wren has nothing to work w/. He better do something soon!
July 14th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
Reyes has been the one allowing big innings? In Morton’s 6 starts, he has not yet thrown more than 6 innings and in all but 2 outings he has allowed 3 or more runs. In his past 6 starts, jojo has gone 7 or more innings 3 times and has limited opponents to 2 or fewer runs 4 times. On the year, Reyes’ ERA is 4.40 compared to Morton’s 5.93 and Reyes’ WHIP is 1.429 compared to Morton’s 1.615. Reyes also has a lower BB/9 rate than Morton so far.
July 14th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
No one would want Hampton because he hasn’t played since 2005, is incredibly expensive, and has still not proven that he can come back or be effective to any extent this year.
July 14th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
What about when he fell apart vs the Brewers, When he only went 2 and1/3 innings and allowed 4 runs, or when he only went about 4 innings in his last 2 starts? I’m just saying he’s waaaaaaaay to unpredictable for me!
July 14th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
I thought of that, but he’s still a former Cy Young award winner. That’s g2 give him some vaue.
July 14th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
I meant value. My b.
July 14th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
Reyes hasn’t won a game in over a month, Morton won one 2 days ago.
July 14th, 2008 at 8:12 pm
wins are not an accurate way to measure pitchers against each other. How about Morton’s start against philly where he went 2 innings and gave up 5 runs? How about morton giving up 5 or more runs in 2 of his last 3 starts. Both of these guys are inconsistent at this point because they’re both young guys adjusting to the league, but Reyes is absolutely more advanced.
July 14th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
This debate is getting no where fast. Obviously we disagree. Both Reyes and Morton have a lot of work to do if they’re going to become star caliber pitchers. The end.
July 14th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
I would not be a buyer or a seller speaking of BravesNation hey you’re not serious world series contenders, being 6.5 games out of 1st place in the NL East and not to mention the wild-card where the Braves are 7.5 out with 6 teams to overtake, man come on now.Best option is to keep Tex on the roster until the offseason and look at the farm for pitching prospects because I know we have so many solid arms in the farm.
July 14th, 2008 at 9:36 pm
It’s not about winning a World Series for the Braves right now, it’s to get back the NL East pennant that we have been w/out for 3 yrs. We need to start there to get our players to believe that we can do something. Right now, as you can see from my fellow bloggers, the Braves are expected to start rebuilding in the second half of the season. If we can go out and get a guy who will help us win a pennant, that will boost the moral of the players and us fans. And come on, first and foremost Major League Baseball is a business, and in the 09 season would fans rather watch the Braves as a rebuilding team or a pennant winner the following yr. I make my point.
July 14th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
Well said Theo baseball is a business so baseball will view business first and view winning later.
July 14th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
But uve got 2 win 2 do good business, do you not?
July 14th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
Unless if ur the Chicago Cubs. lol.
July 14th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
The Braves aren’t going to compete any time soon. They do nothing to improve their ball club, while the Mets and Phillies do. Such are vagaries to having a mid market team.
July 14th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
This per mlbtraderumors.com, Joel Sherman as told by Tim Dierkes:
The Angels have “hinted at a willingness to build a deal around pitching prospect Nick Adenhart.” This would apparently involve Mark Teixeira or Matt Holliday.
Many teams with big pockets are looking at Tex, and I think we may see some competition between suitors.
July 14th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
That would have been far more impressive last year but Adenhart’s stock has really sunk quite a bit because he has been terrible this year. If the Braves could somehow snag Adenhart and another good prospect, I would probably take that.
July 14th, 2008 at 11:19 pm
If the braves go for it this year, they’ll finish in 3rd place this year and next. If you do some rebuilding this year, you can finish in 4th place this year and contend next year. 1 division title and one 4th place finish is better than two 3rd place finishes. The point of rebuilding is that you get rid of the guys that only have value for this year (Tex and ohman) so that you can get guys that have value a year or two from now.
July 14th, 2008 at 11:19 pm
Most of our good prospects are already pitchers. I’m not saying we couldn’t use him, I’m just saying why don’t we try 2 get a good young talented 3rd basemen. Chipper isn’t getting ne younger. I’m not in favor of trading him at all, but if we are going to trade him for prospects, let’s get someone who coud b more beneficial 2 us down the road.
July 14th, 2008 at 11:24 pm
I understand the concept, but most of the fans dont. if we don’t do something now, i think attendance is gonna get ugly. And most naive fans aren’t going 2 b thrilled about trading one of our top bats for a couple of prospects. Most fans r expecting us 2 contend now, like we did 4 seasons ago.
July 15th, 2008 at 12:14 am
I think the average fan understands it’s a longshot for us to win the division this year, and I think last year taught them that the strategy of trading prospects to win now isn’t the best strategy unless you’re already in or very close to first.
July 15th, 2008 at 12:41 am
Tex, Ohman and BJones/Anderson to the Angels for Casey Kotchman and Nick Adenhart
July 15th, 2008 at 12:52 am
Edo, some of us are wiser and older. You know, been around the block a time or two
July 15th, 2008 at 2:01 am
Ok I’m the good ol’ GM here are the moves I would make.
1.) Trade Mark Teixeria, Will Ohman and Brandon Jones to the Rays for David Price and Eddie Morlan.
2.) Trade Diory Hernandez, Chuck James, Cody Johnson and James Parr to the Pirates for Xavier Nady.
3.) Release Corky Miller and call up Clint Sammons.
4.) Release Julian Tavarez.
5.) Release Ruben Gotay
Lineup (Against Righties):
Kelly Johnson - 2B
Yunel Escobar - SS
Chipper Jones - 3B
Brian McCann - C
Xavier Nady - 1B
Greg Norton - LF
Jeff Francoeur - RF
Mark Kotsay - CF
Lineup (Against Lefties)
Brent Lillibridge - 2B
Yunel Escobar - SS
Chipper Jones - 3B
Xavier Nady - 1B
Brian McCann - C
Matt Diaz - LF
Jeff Feancoeur - RF
Mark Kotsay - CF
Bench:
Clint Sammons - C
Brent Lillibridge/Kelly Johnson - UT
Greg Norton/Matt Diaz - OF
Martin Prado - UT
Omar Infante - UT
Starting Pitching:
Tim Hudson - RHP
Jair Jurrjens - RHP
Tom Glavine - LHP(If Ready)
Jorge Campillo - RHP
Mike Hampton - LHP
Relief Pitching:
Buddy Carlyle - LRP
Charlie Morton - LRP
Royce Ring - LOOGY
Jo-Jo Reyes - LRP
Blaine Boyer - SUP
Rafael Soriano - SUP(If Ready)
Mike Gonzales - CP
Now this is all pending guys being healthy which we all know how this season has gone. Also you guys may have noticed no Gregor Blanco. He would be in the Sept. Call-up group but we all know how the injuries have gone he could be back before the end of the 1st game after he was sent down lol.
July 15th, 2008 at 8:30 am
Hey how about back in 91 when we started our run. Worse to First!!! Back when only 2 divisions per league, and now some of you are giving up because we have to pass 3 teams??? There wasn’t even the wild card back then!
July 15th, 2008 at 8:35 am
Jay, Telemakhos, I agree wid U guz!
Let’s just relax and spin the bottle. Take a risk…..Go for broke, we ain’t going to get the Division and we ain’t getting the Wild Card. Let’s live and make deals, bring up some more fresh meat for opposing pitchers to feast on
July 15th, 2008 at 9:17 am
If Frank Wren decides to liquidate Teixeira from the Braves’ roster, he will probablty hyave to wait until the last week of July so he can generate competition for Teixeira. Wren’s hand is weakened because Teixeira will become a FA in three months, and because Boras is his agent. So Wren needs to identify a couple of legitimate contenders who believe Teixeira can make a difference for their clubs in 2008, then get them bidding against one another. This will take some time, and I think the circumstantial evidence tells us Wren is already working on this with the Angels and Red Sox.
But Wren will probably be patient here. Nick Adenhart, Kevin Youkilis, and Craig Hansen are unlikey to be the actual targets. Wren might be able to do better. And I’m not knocking Youykilis, either. He’s a good player, but the Braves need elite, young talent if possible.
So I believe Teixeira and Ohman will be traded this month for prospects. This is obviously not the time to deal Francoeur. The art of trading is to deal players when their trade value is highest. Francoeur is an inexpensive player having a horrible season. Plus he is a local hero who can put Atlanta fans in the seats if/when he turns this learning experience around. It is counterintuitive to contemplate trading him now. Wren will be patient with Francoeur.
I’m not sure what Wren will do with Tim Hudson. It makes sense to keep Hudson’s contract unless a contender makes a strong offer. But pitching is a very marketable asset, and Hudson could tip the balance in another division in the right scenario. Anything is possibly there.
I think the Braves can swing a couple of deals this month that could put them right back into a contending scenario in the next two years. But if they follow their recent strategy and deal away more prospects for rentals, they will soon be battling the Nationals for the NL East cellar.
July 15th, 2008 at 9:30 am
I’d sell. This team really needs not 1 but 2 power hitting outfielders to be at all good offensively. Getting 2 power hitters is basically impossible unless you want to trade both Hernandez and Shaeffer which I don’t. I’d move Tex, Ohman, and Gonzalez since they’ll have the most value. If any contender wants to trade for Gotay, Infante, or Norton to fill up the end of their bench, I’d trade them away for basically nothing too. Miller should be traded to some beer league for a six pack. Sammons will never play everyday for the Braves anyway as long as McCann is here, so I don’t understand the reluctance to have him be a backup. Call him up already. The goal of the trades should be to add at least one elite corner outfield prospect and an elite first base prospect. Chuck James and/or Jeff Francoeur could be thrown in if it’ll help get the trades done.
July 15th, 2008 at 10:27 am
I wouldn’t necessarily be so quick to pull the trigger on a deal for Tex. It would absolutely have to include some unbelievably bad ass prospects, and an established, solid major leaguer. I actually like the way that Jay thinks above - I’m just not so sure the Rays would depart with David Price. I’d listen to every offer out there, and hold my ground until the last possible minute. Shoot for the stars with every offer; you have nothing to lose. We’re in that gray area where we’re not necessarily out of it, but we aren’t necessarily in the race either with 3 teams to pass. If nothing fits, hold on to him, and take our compensatory first rounder in next year’s amateur draft when we lose Tex to free agency. Try to get a sleeper like Randy Winn without giving up too much to beef up the outfield. Who knows, if we get any kind of consistency from anyone besides Chipper and Mac, we could actually win some games…but, we’ve dug such a huge hole by playing like complete shit on the road, a 3rd place finish seems inevitable.
July 15th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
There is literally no way the Rays are trading Price.
July 15th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
Does anyone know if MLB GM’s have like a draft card like they do in the NFL? The reason I ask is that I know it is hard to look ahead with draft picks, baseball should allow teams to trade their picks. Just think how many teams would be trading with the A’s, Beane is always rebuilding. But if Wren is not blown away with talent, then Keep Tex and Ohman–I would like to sign him simply because he is consistent and a pro. I have read the posts and yes I suggested trading Tex and making a run at him in the offseason but if one does not get value now, take the picks, their is always waivers–that is how we got Neagle–in August. True someone would claim him but how many non pitchers get claimed? Remember Manny? Which GM would claim him and lose him after a month maybe two?
As for the Frenchy talk, I am sorry but this is the big leagues, look at Cliff Lee–he was in the minors last year and now is starting the All Star game. Frenchy needs to grow up. On Yahoo, the Braves report suggested that Wren may have made a point now about him not accepting the Braves contract offers the last two springs. If he had the money would he be more relaxed? I would try and move him, yes I know he is a home town product but so is McCann and he does not act like he is owed something.
Final thought–please get rid of TP as hitting coach, heaven help us if he is next in line to be manager–we need Don Baylor as a hitting coach or if nothing else, bring up the Double A manager or Chipper/McCann’s dads–does it surprise many that MLB players are turning to theor fathers rather than the professional coach?
July 15th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Trading Frenchy is one of the most absurd things I’ve heard in a long time. Why trade him when his stock is the lowest it’s been in his entire major league career? What r u gonna get 4 him?
July 15th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
Alex, Nobody is untouchable! He can be had with the right package!
July 15th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
I also agree w/ Gras. Don’t trade Tex unless if u get some major deal from a team. He is a major part of the 3rd best offense in the NL. And i dont understand why it’s so neccessary to rebuild. It’s not like we’re the Giants, people. Come on, we are a fairly young team, have a good farm system, and already have the best pitching in the NL and the 3rd best offense in the NL, ahead of Phili, NYM, and the Fins in both of these categories. The problem is we need another bat to pull us through in one run games. We don’t need to rebuild, we need to be willing to fork up a little bit of extra dough to get us to the next level. Are the Phils, the Cubs, or the Cards successful primarily b/cof their farm system? No! It’s b/c they’re willing 2g out there and get the Alfonso Soriano or the Chase Utley that they need. Come on, all we need is another bat, people! Ya’ll are way over reacting!
July 15th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
hey we could always try to get Kershaw, Loney and Kemp for Texeira. We’ll even throw in Chris Resop.
July 15th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Telemakhos, whenev we win the NL East by trying 2 rebuild strarting at the 2nd half of this season, then we’ll talk, but i really don’t see that happening. Look at the Fins. It took them 4ev 2 rebuild and now that they’re doin something the fans don’t care. They’ve got like what, a thousand fans at an average home game? I’ve seen quadrupal the peolpe show up 2 a single A baseball game. And u never know if prospects r gonna work out r not. The Braves have nowhere 2 go but up. They’ve got what, about a dozen guys hurt, including Glavin, Hampton, Smoltz(doesn’t look like he’ll evr pitch again, though.), Diaz, etc. If we get another bat in there we’re sure 2 mske some noise. If we rebuild, who knows what’s gonna happen.
July 15th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Chase Utley came up with the Phillies.
July 15th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
You’re right - we do have one of the best “statistical” teams in the league, but we are lacking in the intangible dept…really bad. It’s doing the little things right…getting bunts down, taking the extra base, hitting behind runners, and NOT WETTING YOUR PANTS when a clutch hit is needed that will win us the close ones. Early in the season, Tex was really bad at not producing when we needed the big hit. Francouer has done it all season long. I don’t know if one guy can come along like McGriff in ‘93 and give us that spark. The first 6 games after the break (WASH/FLA) will ultimately determine how we approach the rest of the season.
July 15th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
That wasn’t my point. My point is that when the opportunity to spend the extra dollar 2 make their club better comes up, they jump at the chance. I never said that either of those players were ex of players they went out and got, I’m saying they’re good players. Geez, u people twist everything i say!
July 15th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Oh, and very well said, Gras. Now all we need is 2 sign a big player 2 boost everyone’s confidence, not 2 mention we’d just b plain, flat-out better if we had an outfielder who could actually hit the ball.
July 15th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
I didn’t mean to twist what you were saying, but why would you mention those two players when making the point that a team needs to spend more money to make the team better? Soriano only works as an offseason example, and Utley doesn’t work. I was confused because they sure seem like examples. I apologize for the confusion.
July 15th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
6 1/2 games may not sound like a lot, but baseball people know the problem of being behind nine other NL teams in the standings (not to mention the NL East Division leading Phillies, against whom the Braves are 1-8 so far this season) is a very steep deficit to make up in 67 games. If one accepts the concept that the Braves are probably not going to climb out of that hole and become legitimate contenders by September (and I do), then the question on the table is….
What changes need to be made to Atlanta’s roster to make this club a contender in 2009 and beyond?
First, consider that Atlanta’s AA and AAA farm teams are practically devoid of major league-caliber talent now, with the exceptions of Jordan Schafer, Tommy Hanson, Todd Redmond, and Kurt Medlin at Mississippi. The Braves need a major infusion of talent at the upper levels of their system. Some of that will come from Myrtle and Rome,. but a lot of it will have to be acquired in trades.
A lot of this is preliminary opinion, but that’s unavoidable. Charlie Morton looks more and more like a long term member of the rotation to me. His stuff is very good, and he has grit. The learning curve is painful, but the kid can pitch. I am somewhat less certain about Jo Jo, but Jo Jo’s stuff is basically good and he is a lefty so I would hang onto him and give him another season to mature in Atlanta.
I would certainly try to re-sign Jorge Campillo, whether they view him as a starter or a reliever for the longer term. The guy can pitch, and his command is sensational at times.
Tim Hudson’s principal value to this team is that he could be matched-up against a playoff opponent’s #1 starter in a short postseason series. Since the Braves are not going to make the postseason playoffs, Wren should shop him, but only in case a contender wants to make a lights-out offer of a great package of prospects (which is certainly possible when one considers the tightness of some of the other division races). Otherwise I would hang onto Hudson.
Jair Jurrjens should basically be as untouchable as any Brave can get at this point.
Whether Hudson stays or goes, it seems clear this team can never have enough young pitching. The reliance on older starters in recent years has lead to an ongoing list of injury problems and chaos in the rotation, despite the great job Cox and McDowell have done in damage control with this staff. If Hudson stays, Wren must decide whether he wants to go into 2009 with a rotation of Hudson/Jurrjens/Campillo/Morton/Reyes. Otherwise he will need at least one other starter in 2009 because Smoltz, Glavine, and Hampton will be gone, and Tommy Hanson isn’t ready yet. If Hudson goes, Wren would obviously have to pick up a young, high-ceiling starter in the deal who is nearly major league ready.
After trading Saltalamacchia, Harrison, and two other future major leaguers for Teixeira last year, getting two draft picks next June would be a disastrous yield for this franchise. I like draft picks as much as anyone, but Wren needs to get value for Teixeira this month. I would hope another high-celing pitcher would come to Atlanta in any deal for Teixeira.
And if a physically-unsound Octavio Dotel could net Kyle Davies (who is currently 3-1 for the Royals, BTW), one can only imagine what kind of prospect an anxious AL contender might cough up for Will Ohman at the end of July.
Somewhere along the line, they need to pick up a first baseman for 2009, since nobody in the Braves organization is ready to take over for Teixeira. But this does not have to be a Teixeira/Pujols type player. They will need two seasons from a solid veteran before Freddie Freeman will be ready. Freddie is the real deal.
The same is true in LF. Jason Heyward will be ready in two seasons. And if they decide to deal Francoeur, Heyward can play RF.
Within another year or so, both Jordan Schafer and Gorkys hernandez will be ready for promotion to Atlanta. For now, I would keep both. In the meantime, it could be grim with Blanco in CF, but Blanco is still only 24 years old and could improve.
So if I was Wren, I would use the next two weeks to deepen the Braves’ roster of young pitching prospects by dealing Teixeira and Ohman for sure, and possibly Hudson if the return was tremendous.
This is not the time to trade Jeff Francoeur or Mike Gonzalez, both of whom are at the nadirs of their career trade value. I agree with other posters that Francoeur is basically an immature brat, but many major league stars have fit that same basic profile. If you must trade Francoeur, you do it sometime next season after his trade value has rebounded a little bit. so were M. Mantle and . .
would definitely hand
July 15th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Messenger, u seem 2 b on top of things, so what’s the last news on Lerew? I agree that if ur gonna trade tex u need 2 trade him 4 pitching trading Tex 4 pitching, but not a young guy who’s still in the minors, get a guy who’s been in the majors for a year or 2 a nd has shown some signs of consistency. having inconsistent talents like Jo Jo and Morton is headache enough! I still say u don’t trade Tex, though.
July 15th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
Theo
What do you think our chances are of signing Tex? Just curious
July 15th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Slim 2 none. The Braves aren’t going 2 b willing 2 pay top dollar 4 him. I think he’ll end up w/ the Yanks as a DH or somethin like that. And i understand that if he’s gonna leave, why not trade him, but who do we have 2 replace him? I think we need 2 make a run at it now. And i think it is MUCH more gutsy 2go for it now than 2 “roll the dice” and rebuild.
July 15th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
messenger, I think mike gonzalez’s value is actually pretty good right now. If the braves think he’s going to be The guy in the pen for the next few years, he might be worth holding onto, but I think he could be a good closer for a team down the stretch and could net quite the load of prospects.
July 15th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Messenger, Davies didn’t have much value when the Braves traded him and still doesn’t. Regardless of what his record says, he hasn’t pitched well at all this year. He has gotten incredibly lucky but the peripherals show he is going to get hit and hit hard sooner or later.
July 15th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
I agree with messenger, Tim Hudson is the Braves biggest trade piece. Frank Wren would be wise to contact the Tampa Bay Rays in this regard because as great as they have played in the first half of this season, the Rays don’t have the pitching to keep up with the Red Sox and they know it.
Tim Hudson is the one pitcher who could pry David Price away from the Rays. The point is simple. The Braves can’t win with Teixeira and they won’t win in 2009 without him. It’s time to rebuild, if Frank Wren doesn’t realize this fact, he should be fired right along with Bobby Cox.
July 15th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
Fire Bobby! That’s practically heresy! You guys r idiots! I’m out of here!
July 16th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
I see today that Jon Heyman is reporting the Braves will not move Tex and a surprise, Braves have the prospects for Holiday but I think that would be to high. If Nady is under control through 09 I would take a shot
Next year if the payroll does not go down, the Braves should be a player for say a Ben Sheets. Hudson, Sheets, JJ and then 4th starter with Campy a 5–the reason for that is he is a pitcher and who relies on changing speeds more than the top 3
Will what are your thoughts on the Braves at the deadline–do we add, subtract, or stay put?
Thanks
July 16th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
If the rotation was still Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, I would say buy. But I have a hard time believing our rookie pitchers are going to continue being among the best in the league for another half a season and the offense could well get worse as Chipper cools off from his ridiculous start, McCann wears down, and Escobar misses time for his bad shoulder. The team isn’t even above .500. I just don’t see Xavier Nady or even Matt Holiday winning us enough games to pass the Phillies, Mets, and Marlins to win the division with Bobby Cox throwing away games with his bad strategic managing.
July 16th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
If I’m the GM, I’d have to see where we are at the deadline. If this team makes up some ground then you possibly add an outfielder. If they fall, Teixeira and Ohman have got to go.
Of course in reality, I don’t think Teixeira is going to be moved because I think two draft picks and the chance to climb back into the race is more value than we’re going to get for him on the trade market.
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