MVN - a Chicago Cubs blog
The Cub Reporter
Constructing A Persecution Complex
Teams that struggle against the likes of the Houston Astros and the Cincinnati Reds and play as horribly as the Cubs did Monday (and most of Sunday, for that matter) don’t need to create their own distractions.
That, to me, is the bottom line on all of the upheaval over the booing of Carlos Zambrano during yesterday’s 11-3 drubbing by the Dodgers.
Zambrano should have shut up about it after the game or said something like, “I made a stupid mistake on the bases that cost us a run, and I pitched like hell. I’m angry about it, and I understand that the fans are angry about it, too. I expect to perform better next time.”
But Carlos seems to have been born without a shut-up gene, so now the media have a story, and the easily distracted Zambrano has a distraction, and the Chicago Cubs have an ace who hasn’t won a game or deserved to win a game in a long time.
Sorry that it’s so, Carlos, but the $95 million contract comes at a price: the fans expect you to be a star–especially in the heady days of a pennant race–and justify the Cubs’ considerable investment in you.
That’s the way it is, big boy. Get used to it. The pressure on you to perform is going to increase, not decrease, over the length of your deal.
Finally, an aside regarding the official Web site of the Chicago National League Ballclub and this piece by correspondent Carrie Muskat:
At best, Muskat’s declaration that “the booing at Wrigley Field toward the Cubs has increased since the 2003 season” is arbitrary; at worst, it’s a disingenuous suck-up to Zambrano and the current team.
When stars stink, even Cub stars, they get booed. Ask Ron Santo about that, Carrie, or Ferguson Jenkins or Dave Kingman.
It makes for a nice, neat rhetorical package for Muskat to suggest that Zambrano is the latest in a line that includes LaTroy Hawkins, Corey Patterson, and Dusty Baker, but it’s an unfair characterization of Cub fans.
And it’s not accurate.
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91 Responses to “Constructing A Persecution Complex”
September 4th, 2007 at 11:49 am
Well said Cubnut.
Make sure we don’t use the media being unable to interpret the take home message though, Z just needs a singularity of focus. See the ball, be the ball.
September 4th, 2007 at 11:56 am
Well, IMO, the booing has gotten worse since 2003. I wasn’t watching or listening to the Cubs in the 60’s or 70’s, so I can’t compare it to then. But from when I started following the team everyday till now, since 2003 it has gotten worse.
September 4th, 2007 at 12:05 pm
“I made a stupid mistake on the bases that cost us a run, and I pitched like hell. I’m angry about it, and I understand that the fans are angry about it, too. I expect to perform better next time.”
I don’t have a problem with this quote. He puts it on himself and is not lashing out for being booed. Many players would complain about it. How can anyone be upset when he says, “Hey, it’s my fault and I need to do better”?
And I will say that booing has increased in Wrigley since 2003 and GOOD! Since 2003 fans have started to expect good baseball as opposed to all the years when they didn’t care and accepted crap.
September 4th, 2007 at 12:11 pm
Hey, subject change. Late breaking news from THT today. It’s better to swing at pitches in the strike zone than pitches that are out of the strike zone.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/m.....ing-it-up/
Fonzie 10th in the league in crappy pitches swung at (around 43%). Turns out he swings and misses 10% more often on balls out of the zone as opposed to strikes he swings at.
DeRosa is the league leader is fewest balls out of the zone swung at (17%). He missed 18% more often when he swung at balls as opposed to strikes.
Data is in somewhat of a small (and not complete) sample, however.
September 4th, 2007 at 12:11 pm
If professionals do not perform up to standards they deserve to be booed. Ultimately the fans are the employers. In your profession, if you do not perform to your companies standards, your boss will surely make you aware of your shortcomings.
As for increased booing at Wrigley Field. I can only personally report on the early 1950’s with smaller crowds and certainly more laid back fans which contributed to less enthusiastic teams and followers. I prefer the excitement of todays fans with much more cheering and certainly more booing.
September 4th, 2007 at 12:26 pm
I remember lots of booing from the 70s and early 80s. Bobby Murcer, Jerry Martin, and Ray Burris were among the frequent targets. And I believe that Lee Elia would disagree with Muskat’s blanket statement - I’m sure in colorful language. The booing just wasn’t as loud, maybe, because the attendance was substantially lower.
Bottom line - Zambrano needs to shut up and figure out a way to concentrate for 2 hours straight.
September 4th, 2007 at 12:32 pm
“If professionals do not perform up to standards they deserve to be booed. Ultimately the fans are the employers. In your profession, if you do not perform to your companies standards, your boss will surely make you aware of your shortcomings.”
I just don’t think booing helps the player do better next time. Performing well athletically has a lot do with confidence and feeling loose. When 40,000 people boo you, it has to be hard to feel confident and loose.
Zambrano knows he’s not pitching as well as he should be. It’s not like he finally realized he was pitching like shit once the fans started to boo.
So, how is booing players on your team beneficial to the team’s success? Unless your goal by booing is to get the player out of lineup/off the team (e.g. LaTroy, Dusty, KPat), it can’t possibly help.
September 4th, 2007 at 12:47 pm
Comparitively speaking to the other “long suffering” franchises (Phils, BOSox, NYRangers) Cub fans are more than forgiving
September 4th, 2007 at 12:47 pm
Brewers get Ray King from Washington for a PTBNL.
Yeah, that’ll help.
September 4th, 2007 at 12:51 pm
Good original post, Cubnut. Z cannot control the fans. DLEE cannot control the fans. But Z can control his own emotions. Well, without seeing a shrink, I really question whether Z can control his emotions. But in theory he can. The real issue here is not the behavior of the fans but Z’s reaction. He needs to control himself until he gets in the dugout runway and then he can explode all he wants. I know that often times people will joke and say so and so needs to see a psychologist. But I think it is not joking here. Zambrano really could use some sort of therapy. He needs to learn to control his impulses, like most adults learn to do. But he has proven that he clearly cannot do it on his own. For his own sake, I hope he seek out some help. But I won’t be holding my breath for that to happen.
September 4th, 2007 at 12:56 pm
I don’t have a problem with this quote. He puts it on himself and is not lashing out for being booed. Many players would complain about it.
Chad, that was the quote that Z “should have said,” that is nothing like he what he actually said.
His actual statement was something along the lines of ‘the fans are selfish, they should be supporting me during tough times” (no where near an exact quote)
September 4th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
Brewers get Ray King from Washington for a PTBNL.
Yeah, that’ll help.
Well… his line allowed against lefties this year is pretty damn good: .161/.260/.290
You don’t want him pitching against righties though: .328/.419/.625
Both are in somewhat limited sample sizes (62 and 64, respectively).
September 4th, 2007 at 1:00 pm
I don’t have a problem with this quote. He puts it on himself and is not lashing out for being booed. Many players would complain about it.
Chad… this is what Z actually said:
September 4th, 2007 at 1:02 pm
I think it’s interesting that the same entitlement mentality that is evident in Zambrano’s post-game statement (”That’s what I ask of the fans—a little support.”) is evident in statements of fans who insist on their right to boo (”the fans are the boss,” “I paid $35 for my ticket and $8 for my beer, so I have a right to see good baseball and boo if I don’t.”).
Yes, fans have a right to boo. And yes, Z has the right to tell us that he wishes he got support instead of boos.
So now that we’ve established the rules of the playgroup, there is no sense turning this into a lingering controversy or hornet’s nest. Let’s instead turn this into a incensed discussion as to how Jim Hendry let LHP Ray King go through waivers.
September 4th, 2007 at 1:07 pm
I’m aware of King’s splits, dave. How many LOOGY’s do they need? They’ve already got Shouse, who is better against both left and right.
v. LH: 167/222/208
v; RH: 253/319/289
September 4th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
re: 11/13
well that’s not good. Hopefully it’s just a case of Carlos being Carlos and he’ll shake it off and make fun of it later.
September 4th, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Let’s instead turn this into a incensed discussion as to how Jim Hendry let LHP Ray King go through waivers.
I’d be scared as hell that Bowden would dump him on Hendry if he claimed him. I’d also be very concerned for E-Man’s sanity.
September 4th, 2007 at 1:13 pm
How many LOOGY’s do they need?
Well… with an expanded roster, it doesn’t hurt to have another good LOOGY.
Of course, I sure hope he gets plenty of opportunities to face righties!!
September 4th, 2007 at 1:15 pm
Wes:
Brewers get Ray King from Washington for a PTBNL.
Yeah, that’ll help.
lol, well said, Wes.
September 4th, 2007 at 1:16 pm
dave:
Well… his line allowed against lefties this year is pretty damn good
Age old wisdom: Ray King = Desperation.
September 4th, 2007 at 1:20 pm
Btw… will we see a Kerry Wood start in the playoffs? I think we might. Let’s just say, hypothetically, of course, if we have to play a game 7 and Z & Wood are both available, I would be inclined to choose Woody.
September 4th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
I think you’ve got too many ponies and not enough jockeys down in that bullpen, dave. Going to be awful hard for Coach Yost to keep everybody happy and find time to get two LOOGY’s in there.
Although the way their bullpen is blowing leads, if the Burger King can get ANYBODY out, he’ll pitch plenty. Guys over at Brew Crew Ball are talking like they’ve found their setup man. I certainly hope that they have.
September 4th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
Well said, DC Tom. And let’s keep in mind that this is the first time that Zambrano has ever shown any frustration about the fans or the Cubs (at least that I recall).
It is kind of funny, really. The fans voiced their displeasure at Zambrano’s actions, and then Zambrano in turn voiced his displeasure at their actions. Both had the right to do so, I suppose. I found both reactions irritating.
One key difference: the fans criticized Zambrano for doing something he was trying not to do (play poorly), while Zambrano criticized the fans for something they intentionally did (booed him). If forced to judge who was being more asshole-ish, I’d have to pick the fans.
September 4th, 2007 at 1:23 pm
i’d also be concerned for E-man’s sanity…
_________
Ray King looks like he ate Oh-man for breakfast. So E-Man would really mean it when he says he hates Ohman’s guts
September 4th, 2007 at 1:23 pm
Ray King-HAHAHAHAHA!!
That’s as pathetic as the Dodgers picking up Loiza….oh.
September 4th, 2007 at 1:24 pm
Well, good thing is that we won’t get to face King. In 33.1 career innings against the Cubs, the Cubs bat .171 on him and he has a WHIP of 0.99. That is the worst performance of any National League opponent Ray King has faced.
I’m a tad surprised the Cardinals did not look to pick him up for that very reason. Having several lefties in the pen for the five games remaining against the Cubs would seem to be a good strategy.
September 4th, 2007 at 1:27 pm
Btw… will we see a Kerry Wood start in the playoffs? I think we might.
No… not a chance. Wood hasn’t pitched more than 2 ip this year. He won’t be starting any games in the playoffs.
September 4th, 2007 at 1:28 pm
I think Ray King left the Cardinals and LaRussa on bad terms…so I doubt they considered him
September 4th, 2007 at 1:30 pm
I would rather have Ray King as my LOOGY than Blowman or Erroryre. ESPN 1000 is saying Z will have an aplogi press conference before the game. Also Piggy, Hart and Fuld will called up before the game, so I am guessing this will be a Koyieless September as Fuld takes the 40 man spot meant for him unless Pagan has had a setback.
September 4th, 2007 at 1:57 pm
“…how Jim Hendry let LHP Ray King go through waivers.”
Wes - Cubster - you are right. Oh-Man! is enough. With Ray King for the 2nd time, it’d be enough to send me over the edge. It is a damn shame he got recalled. Damn shame.
But, indeed, I know Ray had the Cubs number when he was with the Cards.
September 4th, 2007 at 1:57 pm
Well the fact that we have the sorry-ass Oh-Man! - if we got Ray King - you are right Wes and Cubster - it’d send me over the edge.
He would be one of those players we know so well. They KILL the Cubs but when we get them, the magic wears off! Jeff Blauser Syndrome
September 4th, 2007 at 1:57 pm
Ideally, you have King face one and only one left-handed hitter in a high leverage situation and then you hand him a bag of sliders and send him to the bench. The Brewers have six games left against Cincinnati and that means Dunn, Griffey, and I guess even Josh Hamilton. Plus three games against the Cards to face Edmonds, Ankiel, or Duncan.
It’s not clear whether that is the plan or not. Yost has not used Shouse in true LOOGY–one out–fashion all the time, he has several one-inning or more appearances. But they just lost Parra, another leftie, with a broken finger, so it’s not like they are overloaded with lefties in the pen.
September 4th, 2007 at 1:57 pm
Article about last night’s Boise Hawks game in Idaho Statesman:
http://tinyurl.com/36apoa
September 4th, 2007 at 1:57 pm
I found the real reason why the Cardinals were not interested in trading for Ray King:
http://deadspin.com/sports/bas.....142734.php
They wanted to leave Wilma Eckert of Millstadt, IL to rest in peace.
September 4th, 2007 at 1:57 pm
Ask Candy Maldonado if fans booed at Wrigley when he was around.
September 4th, 2007 at 1:57 pm
does it matter what Z said?
as a representative of his long-term and multi-million contract…yes.
in “real life” outside of that…well, to me i could care less.
a good appologetic buddy who screws up and a complainer who screws up…well, its still screwing up.
boos create Z’s troubles? no. boos create more Z trouble? probably not. reaction to boos by a guy getting paid like he is? not the best of response by Z.
still, i care more about his performance than how he feels about some boos and since the boos arent causing it this all matters to me about as much as “those neat new helmets”.
that said, this guy is a representative of the Cubs core and should pick his words a bit more carefully and bit less self-centered.
September 4th, 2007 at 2:12 pm
Speaking of Wood, he’s about to enter rare Cub playoff air.
If he’s on the playoff roster and of course if the Cubs make the playoffs, this will be his third Cub playoff team moving him pass Sandberg, Grace, Sutcliffe, Sanderson, Sosa, can’t think of any other modern players.
Can some one tell me, because I don’t know, who was the last Cub with three post-seasons under their belts?
September 4th, 2007 at 2:12 pm
Speaking of Wood, he’s about to enter rare Cub playoff air.
If he’s on the playoff roster and of course if the Cubs make the playoffs, this will be his third Cub playoff team moving him pass Sandberg, Grace, Sutcliffe, Sanderson, Sosa, can’t think of any other modern players.
Can some one tell me, because I don’t know, who was the last Cub with three post-seasons under their belts?
September 4th, 2007 at 2:12 pm
does it matter what Z said?
as a representative of his long-term and multi-million contract…yes.
in “real life” outside of that…well, to me i could care less.
a good appologetic buddy who screws up and a complainer who screws up…well, its still screwing up.
boos create Z’s troubles? no. boos create more Z trouble? probably not. reaction to boos by a guy getting paid like he is? not the best of response by Z.
still, i care more about his performance than how he feels about some boos and since the boos arent causing it this all matters to me about as much as “those neat new helmets”.
that said, this guy is a representative of the Cubs core and should pick his words a bit more carefully and bit less self-centered.
September 4th, 2007 at 2:20 pm
#25:
Hey, we have some left-handed guy named Ohman at AAA who also has crazy splits–let’s bring him up to get all the lefties out! …oh.
September 4th, 2007 at 2:20 pm
We teach our young pitchers to focus on their mechanics (repeating the same delivery with proper fundamentals consistently) and concentration (where do I want the ball to go, what is hitter swinging at, etc.).
This is what Carlos and Rothschild ought to be working on fixing since his concentration (definitely) and mechanics (maybe, I would trust Wes to confirm/deny this) have been off since the beginning of August.
The real point isn’t what a bunch of frustrated fans are/aren’t doing, but that Carlos just hasn’t been pitching very well lately. I couldn’t care less what he and the Cubs brass are getting ready to spin for us later this afternoon. I want to see someone with a helluva lot of pitching potential pitch like he’s capable of pitching at a time when his team really needs it.
September 4th, 2007 at 2:30 pm
gabby harnett was in 4 (1929-1938)…assuming you mean cubs-only postseasons.
September 4th, 2007 at 2:30 pm
Needs more double posts.
September 4th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
Good link to Idaho Statesman, VA Phil, let’s hope the Hawks continue their run.
But the bottom of the Statesman page has this very tantalizing headline link that has my head spinning:
“Larry Craig, out-of-control spiders, and an unsolved murder”
September 4th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
I think it is kind of funny when I read the view that Z has the “right” to express himself and that the fans who booed Z are more “asshole-ish” than Z.
The problem with these statements is that Z acted like a baffoon coming off the mound. He needs to be more mature than that. Okay, sure, he has the “right” to be immature. But it is not going to do him in favors in the long run. He shows the opposition again and again through his behavior that it is possible, and actually quite easy, to get under Z’s skin.
As for Z’s verbal comments after the game, okay, he has the “right” to say what he wants. However, he is picking a fight with the fans. Just with the fans that booed him? I don’t think so. I did not boo him and I have less respect for Z today than I did a couple of days ago. I suspect there are others that feel the same way.
Someone said that this is the first time that Z has shown frustration towards the fans. Essentially, we should give him a break. Well, I assume he showed no frustration before because this is the first time that a group of fans loud enough to be heard actually dared to express their displeasure to Z. Sorry, but this does not bode well.
I don’t recall Z ever going through a slump quite like this before. If his slump continues, and we don’t hear from the “repentent Z” before his next start, he will shortly after another opportunity to show his displeasure towards the fans. And if he taunts them again, which I think is entirely possible with this guy, it is only going to get uglier and uglier.
September 4th, 2007 at 2:35 pm
“Needs more double posts.”
needs more database errors, extreme lag, and timed out data being lost to the lag.
for some reason i either picture MVN being run on a series of machines with a sole administrator learning on the job and tearing his/her hair out…or a lone machine handling the job of 2+ machines putting along in someone’s closet covered with gym shorts and comic books.
September 4th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
enough z talk-
i rather hope m-v-n has a press conference scheduled soon to apologize for the recent sub-standard performance.
September 4th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
Tonight’s math quiz: Traschel starts tonight at 7:05pm…if he gets his pitch count to 80, what time is it?
September 4th, 2007 at 2:44 pm
Re: 48
I say it’s 10:06 when he throws his 80 pitch…
September 4th, 2007 at 2:48 pm
While what Z said is really stupid, I ultimately could care less what he says if he is performing well, and the fact that he is performing horribly lately, that is my rub. Also, the fact that he has proven time and time again he just can’t grow up and not lose his composure over and over on the mound. I don’t even think a great shrink can help him. He is crazy!!
September 4th, 2007 at 2:50 pm
I was trying to make this point in the last thread, but I don’t know if my last post went through. I have no problem with booing a player who makes an error, or a stupid play - like running through a stop sign to make the first out at the plate. But it seems to me that Cub Fans have gotten meaner since 2003. There was a time when you would boo a player one day and cheer him like crazy the next. Since 03, it seems that there are some who would boo a player regardless of what they did.
Should we accept lousy play? The answer is no. Should we expect ownership and management to put the best possible team on the field? Yes. Does a fan who buys a ticket have the right to express his/her feelings about a bad play? Yes. Does this give any fan the right to cross a line and verbally attack a player? NO. Too many cub fans are crossing that line. I mentioned the JJ comment about fans that called him racist names, and I contend that this is a symptom of cub fans becoming meaner than before. This is a class organization and I really believe that most cub fans are class individuals. But, if we just ignore the ugly behavior and do nothing to change it, then we are giving those people free reign to say what they will.
Booing is for the play on the field, not for the player. It is a fine line, but one that I think we need to examine and ask ourselves have we gone too far?
September 4th, 2007 at 2:51 pm
I wouldn’t be opposed AT ALL to seeing Wood start a game in the playoffs. Then, when his first AB is up, Z pinch-hits and stays in to pitch. Very unorthodox, but hey, let’s get Z into the 7th or 8th for once.
September 4th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
Here are the game lengths of each of Trachsel’s last six starts:
3:21
3:38
3:35
2:31 (not sure how this one happened)
2:51
4:09
Averaging 3 hours and 18 minutes a start. Anyone know the average length of an AL game? In 2003 the average length was 2:46 (link).
So yea… Trachsel is kinda’ slow.
BTW… I know it has been mentioned already, but Trachsel has been excellent in August, and against some good teams too (Boston, Seattle, Boston, Toronto, Minnesota, and Tampa Bay)
5 of his 6 starts were “quality starts,” with the one non-quality start being because he left after 5 2/3 after only giving up 2 runs.
Lets hope that this mysteriously good pitching continues.
September 4th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
i know a lot (at least a lot more than i thought should exist) of casual fans who, to them, part of the game is heckling/yelling…its part of why they go.
this seems to be a lot more present in casual fans than the diehard…putting another weird element into it since the more well-know hecklers (SD/TB/etc’s hecklers) are diehard fans.
in my experience…if you see someone being a loud-ass when nothing really extraordinary is going on…most of the time you got a casual fan who’s bored/outraged at something they dont fully “get”. amazing how many people they can get to join in with them in a domino effect…paying $5-$8 for a beer will do it for ya i guess.
September 4th, 2007 at 2:59 pm
I boo Jim Hendry every chance I get.
September 4th, 2007 at 3:04 pm
Gabby Hartnett and Kerry Wood, wow that says alot about this franchise.
I imagine before Hartnett it was Tinkers or Evers or both.
September 4th, 2007 at 3:07 pm
Yeah, the fans are booing a lot more now than they did before 2003. They’re also cheering a lot more often and for relatively minor events. I’ve seen 40,000 Cubs fans get on their feet at Wrigley to cheer the end of the 4th inning of a weekday day game against a bottom feeder team. I don’t think Zambrano (or some of his teammates) appreciate quite how rare and special that is.
September 4th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
http://www.globesports.com/ser......wsptcubs4
On sale of the Cubs…
- Canning considered the favorite
- Opening Day 2008 a more realistic target for the sale than anytime this year
- 5-6 legit groups
September 4th, 2007 at 3:30 pm
“So, how is booing players on your team beneficial to the team’s success?”
Here’s a quick story regarding the 1984 season - I was in the lower deck, and Larry Bowa was having a tough day at the plate, during a critical series during their pennant stretch run. More than a few fans were letting him know what a bad day Bowa was having, and if you ever saw Bowa play, you could guess that he was giving it back to them every chance he got, in spades. In the 9th inning Bowa came up with a screaming double and scored the winning runs - pandemonium all around, but Bowa runs over to the box seats and flips the same fans the ultimate bird gesture. Harry and Stone were laughing the whole time, but were not commenting specifically on what everyone could plainly see, but the point was made. If Z wants the booing to stop, he should grow a pair, man up, cowboy up, whatever it takes - then he can talk all he wants when he throws the next shut - out.
Since Z fancies himself to be the tough hombre,’ he should start acting like it and do the job he’s expected to do.
September 4th, 2007 at 3:31 pm
ESPN 1000 is reporting that Epat was sent to AA after being late the last couple of days. Seems like there overreacted as traffic is always a bitch on holiday weekends. Hopefully they put him back on the roster after the AA playoffs because wasting an option on him over this is stupid.
September 4th, 2007 at 3:32 pm
BTW - if Wes or AZ Phil would care to comment about whether Z’s troubles are mental or physical right now, that would be most appreciated. If it’s another arm angle problem, then that wouldn’t be good news, obviously.
September 4th, 2007 at 3:34 pm
“cubster — September 4, 2007 @ 2:42 pm
Tonight’s math quiz: Traschel starts tonight at 7:05pm…if he gets his pitch count to 80, what time is it?”
I was elated to find out that TraxL would be starting a night game. I know that I can get home in time to catch the end of the game!
September 4th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
Here’s my story from the ‘84 season: I was 6 years old and when the Cubs dropped the last three to the Padres in the playoffs I cried my eyes out. I thought life was so cruel.
HA! That was my first year as I Cubs fan…I should have considered myself lucky!
September 4th, 2007 at 3:38 pm
Dmac- I remember that game, Stone said that “Bowa was telling some fans that they’re number one.”
And Harry started howling.
Good times.
September 4th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
I think Vorare nails it. There’s no doubt the intensity and, in some cases, the sense of desperation has increased considerably since the ‘03 season (which ended, of course, in calamity and heartbreak). Ticket prices have soared, concessions have soared, salaries have soared, expectations have soared, etc. So with everything being ratcheted up, why wouldn’t the cheering and booing intensify as well?
I have no idea why anyone here would think booing a player (or the whole team) is a new phenomenon. Surely some of you went to games in the 70s or 80s. I still remember the headline in the Trib’s sports section after opening day of ‘78: “Ill winds, fans, howl at Murcer.” The guy misplayed a couple of fly balls on a brutal windy and cold day and heard it big-time from the fans (I think he also hit a homer).
Even the Glory Bulls during their run got booed from time-to-time. Why? Because they had talent but were performing (even if it was for only a quarter or two) well below expectations. Sound familiar? Zambrano has been hugely underperforming for 5 weeks now. During a pennant race. And after signing a huge contract (for at least part of the time).
If Zambrano had the mental ability to take a step back and away from his sense of entitlement, he’d realize the fans are lustily booing him because they expect much, much more from him than, say, Marshall or Marquis. Yeah, it would be nice if he actually said, “Of course they should boo me with all their heart. I’m the ace of this staff but I’m not pitching like it right now. I want them to cheer me but I’m not giving them anything to cheer about.”
Picking a fight with the fans is not the way to get them on your side. Get over yourself, Carlos, and simply start pitching better.
September 4th, 2007 at 4:03 pm
Amen brothers Dmac and Tarzan Joe.
September 4th, 2007 at 4:06 pm
This might be a little off-topic, but Trax’s start tonight got me thinking about something. Clearly each pitcher works closely with their team’s pitching coach, so the coach knows how the pitcher’s throwing motion is looking and about any recent mechanical flaws, as well as the guy’s throwing schedule. When a pitcher is traded between teams, does the new pitching coach typically call the old one and get all the necessary info like the guy’s throwing schedule and mechanics status? Or do teams refuse to share the knowledge and just depend on the pitcher to communicate that stuff to the new pitching coach?
September 4th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
At best, Muskat’s declaration that “the booing at Wrigley Field toward the Cubs has increased since the 2003 season” is arbitrary; at worst, it’s a disingenuous suck-up to Zambrano and the current team.
Well this is embarrassing on several levels. First of all, I have to openly admit, that TCR, the site I go to for Cubs information is now less knowledgeable about the Cubs than is the MLB mouthpiece that is Musket. Second of all, now as a loyal TCR reader, and occasional contributor, I get lumped into the type of bandwagon fandom that I’ve gleefully accused any Braves fan of, who can’t name their third basement before Terry Pendelton.
I humbly request that you post a retraction or correction. At the very least, if you admit that you started following the Cubs around August of 2003, say that you weren’t familiar with the level of booing that began in 2004.
Yes, Cubs players have been booed through the years, but look at the Cubs attendance #’s since 2003. There’s a big difference between 15K fans booing Ferguson in 1983 and 40K fans booing Hawkins in 2005. Even numbers aside, the concept of the ‘Cubs Scapegoat’ which the fans have taken up recently is also relatively new (Mel Rojas aside).
September 4th, 2007 at 4:23 pm
There’s $95 million reasons to boo Zambrano. Would he have stayed if they paid less?
Zambrano wants us to think that he signed the extension because of the great fans in Chicago; however, he wanted more money and would have left the “great fans” to it while trying to make us believe that the Cubs were forcing him out of town if they wouldn’t pay.
I don’t have a problem with him leaving - that was his choice either way; however, the fans deserve more than he’s given us this year and especially the past 5 weeks.
Zambrano should accept the fact that he is a public figure and is expected to perform better in consideration of his salary. Lowly paid Sean Gallagher can have a bad game and sent to the minors; however, an overpaid star can have a bad month, year or entire contract period and we are stuck with him!
I expect Zambrano to prove he’s worth the money and quit his bitching - he’s “earned” the boos.
The cheers will return the next time he pitches. He is very talented and should take the boos as chastisement for improvement rather than feeling unappreciated.
September 4th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
Perhaps Carlos should have a chat with his teammate Jacque, who continually was booed mercilessly as he underperformed for seemingly a whole half a season, but who has played to almost 100% cheers the last few months as he has contributed significantly to the Cubs’ surge to first place.
September 4th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
A MANNYTRILLO Sighting?!
He comes back when the team is in First Place?!
After a season off?
Welcome MANNY.
September 4th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
Sorry to be late to the game, but–
There a 2 kinds of booing.
Frustration Booing comes when a player fails to perform in a certain game situation (hits into a bases-loaded DP, wild pitch lets in the go-ahead run, “ace” runs and pitches like a boob, etc.). This happens with all fans and all players, and most players agree with thr fans’ assessment of their performance. They usually take their medicine, knowing that they will get cheers when they improve (Dempster).
Premeditated Booing (Hundley, Hawkins, Neifi, etc.) is much nastier, and occurs when the player is booed before he does anything. This gets to be much more on the personal level, and this sets in, it’s usually best for the player to leave town.
They are very different.
September 4th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
“Tonight’s math quiz: Traschel starts tonight at 7:05pm…if he gets his pitch count to 80, what time is it?”
Ummm - 9:53 - Central?
September 4th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
I have to admit. I just don’t understand the concept of booing. Are you trying to convey to Zambrano that you don’t approve of him giving up 8 runs in 4+ innings? He knows that. What is the goal of booing? What is the point? Is it simply a manifestation of your own insecurity, trying to gang up on one person? Trying to make yourself feel better by making them feel bad? Or are you simply a sheep that Baa’s when he hears the rest of the flock Baa because you’re incapable of forming an opinion for yourself? I mean seriously, when in your life have you ever looked at a booer, or a heckler or someone swearing at someone else for percieved incompetence or lack of dedication and said ‘Yeah, that guy knows what’s going on! I want to be just like him.’?
September 4th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
In regard to Zambrano, if he does his best and gets hit around a bit, I doubt the fans boo. He runs the bases like a little leaguer-boo city.
I’m taking this stand: If the Cubs lose tonight, I’m blaming Zambrano.
September 4th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
Rhodes
Vizcaino
Grace
Buechele
Smith
Sosa
Walbeck
Yelding
Trachsel
Furcal
Pierre
Kemp
Kent
Gonzalez
Martin
Loney
LaRoche
Penny
September 4th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
“Trying to make yourself feel better by making them feel bad?”
How about you are just trying to tell that guy “I didn’t pay $200 a ticket to see you pitch like shit!”
Yes, as a fan, you are allowed to express displeasure with the product.
September 4th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
According to the Tribune, not only did EPatt go down but Sam Fuld was called up, along with Kevin Hart and Carmen Pignatiello.
http://blogs.chicagosports.chi.....ve-th.html
September 4th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
I like the line Piniella used today about Big Z:
“He had good stuff, he just came unglued after that run through the streets of Pamplona,” Piniella said, referring to Zambrano’s base-running adventure. “I think it tired him out. Anyways, let’s just concentrate on the future and get him back to where he was.”
September 4th, 2007 at 5:12 pm
Sam Fuld 3/44?
September 4th, 2007 at 5:12 pm
Truthfully, now that I’ve been able to evaluate much of Z’s season, I think it was over as soon as the arm angle dropped down to 3/4. When you post three seasons like he has in 04-06, what the hell is wrong with it?
Why in name of all that is clean and pure with this game would you go screwing with it? I still never did hear a good reason from big dummy or Larry why he did that.
He doesn’t have any idea where anything is going. He can’t control it. He hasn’t hit the catcher’s mitt since Mike Hargrove still had a job. And when you can’t locate, you can’t throw good pitches. You either A) miss the strike zone alot (survey says: ding! That’s the #1 answer. You want to pass or play?) B) leave everything in the happy zone and get crushed (that was our #2 most popular answer) or C) both.
Sure. He has mental problems. He’s a headcase. But I’m not sure he’d be all that much better off if he had a better mental makeup.
September 4th, 2007 at 5:16 pm
If you paid $200 for your ticket and you’re sitting in Wrigley Field booing….you’ve got too much money and too much time on your hands. But I would bet that people are booing in part because Z assumed the villain’s role, when he beat up and ran out of town the beloved Michael Barrett . Now, with this latest streak of 6 pitching gems, it’s pretty clear that Z is his own problem and MB was just a scapegoat.
Boo!
September 4th, 2007 at 5:42 pm
Rhodes
Vizcaino
Grace
Buechele
Smith
Sosa
Walbeck
Yelding
Trachsel
HAHAHAHA.
September 4th, 2007 at 5:51 pm
“If you paid $200 for your ticket and you’re sitting in Wrigley Field booing….you’ve got too much money and too much time on your hands.”
This makes very little sense.
September 4th, 2007 at 6:11 pm
“…that you don’t approve of him giving up 8 runs in 4+ innings?”
You’re not paying attention to the comments here - many have discussed his assinine play that had nothing to do with actual pitching issues. First he runs through the 3rd base coach and gets thrown out by about 50 feet; then fails to back - up home plate after he gives up a run; then he tries to deflect a weakly hit ground ball (with his pitching hand - duh!) only to watch it dribble past the infielder out to the outfield. Total all of these actions up, and you’ve got a seriously pissed - off crowd, primarily due to his selfish actions that are definitely not for the benefit of his team.
Did you actually watch the entire game? Sure doesn’t sound like it.
September 4th, 2007 at 9:34 pm
Wrigley fans booing Z yesterday for bad pitching, disrespecting the game, and ignoring Quade- ACCEPTABLE.
Wrigley fans (esp. the drunk, fair-weather variety) booing pretty much EVERY player that has a bad nite or is in a slump (eg. Jones ((even racial epithets)), Lee, Dempster, Kendall, Z, the Entire Bullpen)- UNACCEPTABLE!
This is baseball guys, not professional wrestling.
September 4th, 2007 at 11:02 pm
You people kvetching about booing are sissy unrealists. Why don’t they just get rid of keeping score and give all the boys trophies at the end of the season–just so no one’s feelings are hurt? Waaaaaah!
September 5th, 2007 at 10:21 am
Muskat is a mindless corporate shill, and always has been. No one is less informative about the team than she.
September 5th, 2007 at 10:27 am
Muskat is a mindless corporate shill, and always has been. No one is less informative about the team than she.
September 5th, 2007 at 8:47 pm
The booing has seemed to increase since 2003. And so far I’ve never seen the booing produce positive results. Corey got worse and worse and was traded for peanuts, Hawkins was traded for two guys who aren’t with the team anymore (and if you look at his numbers, his only really bad stats are the save:save opportunity ratio), and the only good things to come out of the Sammy Sosa trade have been lots of souvenir balls off of Jerry Hairston Jr.’s bat (foul balls, not homers) and Mike Fontenot.
August 11th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
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