MVN - a Chicago Cubs blog
The Cub Reporter
State Of Illinois Considers Purchase Of Wrigley Field (No, Seriously)
From today’s Chicago Tribune:
Tribune Co. executives and Illinois Sports Facilities Authority officials confirmed Thursday that they have held preliminary talks about the state possibly buying and operating historic Wrigley Field.
Both sides also stressed that a ballpark sale could be financed without additional taxes and that naming rights eventually could be sold to help fund renovations.
Story goes like this:
A couple months back, Sam Zell and Crane Kenney asked Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich if the State of Illinois would consider buying Wrigley Field. Blagojevich, a supposed big-time Cubs fan, directed Zell and Kenney to raise the idea with the Illinois Sports Facilities Authority and its chairman, former Illinois Governor James Thompson.
(For those of you too young to know, Governor Thompson was in office when Jerry Reinsdorf blackmailed the State of Illinois into building him a crappy stadium of his own design on the South Side. It’s currently called U.S. Cellular Field. You may have seen pictures of it on television.)
While acknowledging that the state’s purchase of The Friendly Confines would be “a very challenging and complex transaction,” Thompson thinks it’s a good idea and that “revenue would be generated by rent paid by the team’s owner and ballpark naming rights.”
Chicago Mayor Richard Daley, who, along with the Chicago City Council, would have to approve any such deal, thinks it’s loony that Blagojevich is even getting involved in these discussions when the Chicago Transit Authority is on the brink of financial collapse and the Governor’s lack of leadership in the state budget-making process has left it in a condition of self-parody.
Said the mayor:
“Wrigley Field is owned privately, and it has been very, very successful. It’s made an enormous amount of money, and we have a crisis in the CTA right now. It’s hard to believe that in this day and age, people are now talking about taxpayers helping out the Cubs.”
Again, Thompson contends no tax hike would be necessary to finance the purchase:
Thompson said bonds would be issued for the acquisition and for the ballpark renovations. Depending on the price and the cost of the improvements, Thompson said he thinks the bonds could be paid off without dipping into taxpayer pockets…
The park itself would produce more money via “better suites, for example, and presumably better retail opportunities and better food and beverage opportunities along the line of what U.S. Cellular has,” he said.
Thompson and Kenney declined to say how much Tribune Co. is seeking for Wrigley.
Personally, irrespective of what the former Governor says, I think Illinois taxpayers should be prepared to take it in the-you-know-what if this idea goes forward. And ANY idea where U.S. Cellular Field is held up as a positive example of Wrigley Field’s possible future should be discarded immediately.
This entry was posted
on Friday, December 14th, 2007 at 12:15 pm and is filed under Wrigley Field, Cubs Sale, Cubs Front Office.
You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.
You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
277 Responses to “State Of Illinois Considers Purchase Of Wrigley Field (No, Seriously)”
December 14th, 2007 at 12:24 pm
They should just public domain it. Problem solved. What’s going to happen, major sports teams are afraid to come to Chicago?
December 14th, 2007 at 12:40 pm
Thanks, Cubnut. I read a couple articles on that in the last 24 hours, but it’s an area where I struggle to make heads or tails of anything. I guess that, like you, I’m very wary of the proposal, for now….
December 14th, 2007 at 12:50 pm
Thompson said he thinks the bonds could be paid off without dipping into taxpayer pockets…
to echo Cubnut’s sentiments…
BWAHAAHAAHAHAA
December 14th, 2007 at 12:51 pm
Perfect, I hope they rename it Doritos-Halliburton-US Airways-Dixie-Xerox-American Idol Park.
I’d be more than happy to pay a 20% ticket increase to be a part of that great tradition.
December 14th, 2007 at 12:51 pm
This would be senseless and only make things more difficult for the new owner as he wouldn’t be able to control his own stadium. Hell the city already have solid grasp on Wrigley Field where the team can’t basically make any changes to “historic” parts without city approval.
I don’t think any owner would pull his bid if Wrigley is not included in the deal, but the bid would drop considerably and selling Wrigley Field would only prolong the sale as I am sure any new owner would want to see and get all lease details. Also, I think it opens the door wider for the future owner to move the team out of Wrigley if they don’t own that land and field.
I don’t see any good side to this idea…
December 14th, 2007 at 12:52 pm
I put this in the other thread but…
http://www.suntimes.com/news/s…..14.article
gossip talk that Canning’s group was the only one aware of the Cubs talking to the state abot selling Wrigley.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:02 pm
I don’t see any positive to fans…
for owners, the selling price would dramatically go down and they would just have to pay the lease (over time). When you’re talking about a billion dollar sale, that might interest some.
For Trib I can only assume they feel that separating the two would bring in more than combining them.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
Doug Melvin take Hendry’s GM course?
http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r.....200415852/
Luis Vizcaino to the Brewers on a 2/7 deal…
December 14th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
for owners, the selling price would dramatically go down and they would just have to pay the lease (over time).
The owners of the Cubs could do that anyway. Corporations commonly build their own buildings, then sell them to another party and lease them back. For example, When I worked for Standard Oil (later Amoco, now BP) they built a Research Center in Naperville, then turned around and sold it to a real estate holding company while still continuing to occupy the campus.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:18 pm
Bad idea if you like the idea of the Cubs staying at Wrigley indefinitely. I love the place but it is a dump.
While the ownership of the Cubs and Wrigley are unified the owner has the incentive to fix and save Wrigley as it further decays. If the Cubs are merely a tenant of Wrigley, other facilities would surely be considered.
December 14th, 2007 at 1:43 pm
This would be a great idea that would really save Wrigley Field for future generations. Just look at how great of a job Chicago has done in maintaining the rest of its infrastructure.
oh wait…
December 14th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
don’t you think the new owner would/could simply move out of Wrigley? Someone crazy like Cuban could build a bigger and better stadium and even included Wrigley charms such as ivy covered walls, bleacher seats, etc… all while including the latest in technology, bigger clubhouses, luxury boxes, etc… I think they almost have to include it in the sale. otherwise the clock would be ticking on when the Cubs would be leaving Clark and Addison.
December 14th, 2007 at 2:00 pm
http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/ne.....p;c_id=chc
still no mention of Wuertz…weird.
December 14th, 2007 at 2:05 pm
so do folks think the Cubs should still go after Brian Roberts? for the same cost? Curious on your thoughts?
December 14th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
Hypothetical:
You are the new Cubs owner. For whatever reason, you want to build a new baseball facilty, and leave Wrigley behind.
Where would you build it?
What amenities would it have?
After which present ballpark, if any, would you model it?
December 14th, 2007 at 2:16 pm
Rob G.:
“so do folks think the Cubs should still go after Brian Roberts? for the same cost? Curious on your thoughts?”
No, I don’t. Unless DeRosa is going to go and play SS full time, I don’t see how it really upgrades the team much, if any. Also, the Cubs are too PR conscious to go after him I think. But if they did, they should be able to get him at a lower cost. Just my thoughts…
December 14th, 2007 at 2:20 pm
Danville Joe:
“You are the new Cubs owner. For whatever reason, you want to build a new baseball facilty, and leave Wrigley behind.
Where would you build it?
What amenities would it have?
After which present ballpark, if any, would you model it?”
I think the new owner would take a BIG PR hit, so I think he would have to make the new park look and feel as close as possible to the current Wrigley Field. AS for whewre it would be, I think every town/area in around CHicago land would be falling over themselves to get in line to be where the new park would be.
December 14th, 2007 at 2:20 pm
Yes on Roberts……..I would just leave it Roberts, no Beddard because that would cost Hill for sure. I would first want to see what the offense could produce in wins with: Soriano, Roberts, Lee, Fukudome, Ramirez, Pie, Soto, Theriot.
Cost: Try for Marshall, E. Pat, & Murton. Be willing to go for Gallagher, Cedeno, & Murton.
If they need another SP to go with Z, Liily, Hill, and Marquis/Hart/Gallagher or Marshall, that should be apparent before the trade deadline. Sorry, I don’t see Dempster making the rotation. Either he goes back to the pen or Hendry moves him somewhere by Opening Day.
December 14th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
I know the evidence was pretty flimsy on Roberts but how do you know he didn’ use more than what he told Bigbie? How do you know he didn’t move to hGh? His career took a rather interesting turn there in 2005 you have to admit?
And even if you’re certain he’s clean, you’re bringing in a guy who every time he goes to a new city is going to be asked about the Mitchell report. His introductory press conference will be nothing but steroid questions. Do you want that headache for your clubhouse?
Are Astro fans going to be even remotely excited about Miguel Tejada now? There’s just as a good a shot he’ll be booed on Opening Day.
I’d probably still try and get him, but I’d certainly reduce my paying price.
December 14th, 2007 at 2:38 pm
Rob G. — December 14, 2007 @ 2:00 pm
http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/ne…..p;c_id=chc
still no mention of Wuertz…weird.
=============================
ROB G: It’s not really weird.
I think what’s confusing you is that a few MLB clubs (ATL, CIN, FLA, MIL, SEA, and STL) announced that they had tendered arbitration-eligible players, but most other clubs (including the Cubs) only annouced non-tenders (Prior) or that they had signed an arbitration-eligible player who would have otherwise been non-tendered (Cotts).
Michael Wuertz is in the same position as the 22 auto-renewal guys on the Cubs 40-man roster (”unsigned”), the only difference (and it’s huge) being that Wuertz has the promise of salary arbitration if he can’t reach agreement with the Cubs on a 2008 contract by January 4th, while the other 22 (the “auto-renewal” guys) can have their contracts unilaterally renewed by the Cubs if they haven’t reached agreement on a 2008 contract by March 2nd.
December 14th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
Perfect, I hope they rename it Doritos-Halliburton-US Airways-Dixie-Xerox-American Idol Park.
=========
More likely the State of Illinois would name it:
Paul Powell Park
December 14th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
maybe I’m wrong, but it seemed in past years the Cubs would specifically announce they offered arbitration to a player.
December 14th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
are you SERIOUS?!
December 14th, 2007 at 2:51 pm
Roberts “evidence” is really circumstantial: “his friend said that he told him, that he used it once or twice. In 2001 - or 2003…
I mean…this is fairly far down the totem pole…
December 14th, 2007 at 3:04 pm
Cubs reup with all their minor league affiliations…
http://www.oursportscentral.co.....id=3570361
Damn, I was hoping we would get a shot at their AA team.
December 14th, 2007 at 3:07 pm
You are correct about the evidence, E-Man. But, that isn’t going to stop the public and the press for calling for his head.
I’m not sure it’s worth the headache and the circus that would follow. It’s not whether he did it or didn’t. Doesn’t really matter. He’s already been convicted either way.
December 14th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
hey, I agree it’s circumstantial and flimsy but it’s out there coupled with an odd turn in his career a few years later.
December 14th, 2007 at 3:10 pm
I agrre on the Roberts concenous, Jimbo should still go after him, for all we know he stole a girl from Bigbie and he is pissed at him for that.
December 14th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
Roberts career stats:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/pl.....dQP_eFCLcF
Had a big year in 04, but has been consistent since then so its not like he is Brady Anderson or anything.
December 14th, 2007 at 3:19 pm
The potential circus and PR damage that would surround a Roberts signing would be one concern, but the big question about Roberts and others on The List is how good are they, really? Their stats were undoubtedly pumped up by PED’s for a period — but what period, and how pumped up? These are unanswerable questions but they are important ones.
If you acquire someone on The List, you are getting a player who’s not as good as his stats indicate. But no one knows how much his stats should be discounted. It’s a big risk.
December 14th, 2007 at 3:21 pm
Could also be that Roberts said he did it to be ‘part of the crowd’ when he really didn’t. We’ll see what he says.
December 14th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
If I’m a potential owner, the reason I would not want to buy Wrigley is to obtain leverage over the city or the state to get them to finance improvements or a replacement. That option has value and will cause a potential owners to pay more for the Cub franchise sans Wrigley than a Cubs franchise combined with Wrigley (once the sale price of the real estate is netted out).
However, the government can make that option value evaporate entirely simply by refusing the offer. By entertaining the notion of owning Wrigley, the state is actually making it more likely that the Cubs will leave and build a new stadium! Precisely the opposite of what they presumably are intending to do.
Daley is right here, he knows that the only conceivable use for Wrigley is baseball (The Police and Sting proved that to us last summer). He can prevent a team from tearing it down. The only conceivable bidder for the stadium that creates the option value for a new owner I talked about above is the government–if the government says no, this problem disappears because Zell, who only cares about a maximum aggregate sale price, will be forced to bundle the sale of the team with Wrigley Field.
December 14th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
There’s not going to be any PR circus. What do you guys think, all the newspaper and TV crews in all the MLB cities are going to hire additional staff to show up at press conferences to ask these 60 guys about steriods? By the start of the season it’s going to be a relatively dead subject. All the players will either ‘come clean’ or give their excuses the reporters will go ‘OK” and move on to the Sosa’s and Pujols’s to break the next big story, or just report about something else.
December 14th, 2007 at 3:27 pm
mannytrillo — December 14, 2007 @ 3:04 pm
Cubs reup with all their minor league affiliations…
Damn, I was hoping we would get a shot at their AA team.
============================
MANNY: Did you know that in 70+ years of fielding a AA (or what used to be called”A-1″) minor league team, the Cubs have had an affiliate in the Eastern League only once?
And that was Pittsfield, MA (1985-88).
Future Cubs who played for the Pittsfield Cubs back in the day include Doug Dascenzo, Joe Girardi, Mark Grace, Mike Harkey, Darrin Jackson, Greg Maddux, Jamie Moyer, Rafael Palmeiro, Dwight Smith, Gary Varsho, Hector Villanueva, and Jerome Walton.
Palmeiro was voted Eastern League MVP in 1986, and Grace was the Eastern League MVP in 1987.
Dallas Green was the Cubs President & GM back then, and Gordon Goldsberry ran both Scouting AND the Minor Leagues.
December 14th, 2007 at 3:29 pm
Of all the active players named, the case against Roberts is the flimsiest and there is no way Selig can take anything more than a token disciplinary action on him.
Let’s assume that Roberts 2005 season of 18 HRs and .515 SLG are the product of steroids. If you average 2006 and 2007, when drug tests were in place, his line still is .288/.362/.421 with an average of over 40 stolen bases per year. That’s still pretty good and worth looking at.
Part of me wonders if McPhail got an advance copy or word on the Mitchell Report via his contacts at the Commissioner’s office and that’s why he traded Tejada the day before to an unwitting Houston franchise. What kinda scandal would that be if McPhail had been tipped off?
December 14th, 2007 at 3:30 pm
Had a big year in 04, but has been consistent since then so its not like he is Brady Anderson or anything.
Big year was 2005…
OPS starting in 2003:
704 OPS
720 OPS
902
757
809
well I didn’t say anything about circus but I do think he’ll be hounded with questions throughout the year. He starts off slow in April and they’ll be on him for getting off the PED’s. Evertime he’s mentioned in the paper he’ll be “Brian Roberts, mentioned in the Mitchell Report”. How will he handle that?
These are important concerns imo..
December 14th, 2007 at 3:33 pm
Let’s assume that Roberts 2005 season of 18 HRs and .515 SLG are the product of steroids. If you average 2006 and 2007, when drug tests were in place, his line still is .288/.362/.421 with an average of over 40 stolen bases per year. That’s still pretty good and worth looking at.
problem is you don’t know if he moved to hGH instead…
and there will certainly be no repercussions against Roberts.
Anyone think Palmeiro was telling the truth? Maybe Miggy really did give him the wrong needle?
December 14th, 2007 at 3:34 pm
Wunders Cemetery and Graceland Cemetary - just north on Clark from the Field - would be a great location for a new field.
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/m.....;geodiff=1
* Less than a mile away from the original site (allowing for eventual demolition of the upper deck) and preservation of the field/bleachers/etc. as a museum and/or monument and/or rec softball field and/or whatever.
* Dimensions of the cemeteries are perfect for a new complex - Wunders can be transformed into a multi-level parking garage south of Irving Park, and Graceland would be more than adequate for a very large stadium, facilities and additional stuff (which is today’s game means corporate restaurants, shops and probably some crap simulating the “rooftop” experience)
* Still close to LSD and the Red Line exits at Wilson and Sheridan.
* Biggest obstacles - cemetery removal and inevitable lawsuits from rooftop owners, parking lot owners, nearby bars, et.al.
But in the long run, better than the Rolling Meadows Cubs or whatever.
December 14th, 2007 at 3:37 pm
Roberts injected himself once or twice in 2003, and had a big year in 2005?
Aren’t steroids supposed to work faster than that?
December 14th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
“hounded with questions throughout the year”
I doubt it. What would the questions be? “Hey, you were 0-4 yesterday, is that because you haven’t gotten any Winstrol for the last four years?”
If the numbers thrown around are accurate there’s at least five Cubs who are/were using them. The speculation never bothered Sammy too much, and he was a player with a notoriously fragile mental sate. Maybe Roberts (or one of these other guys) does a Lawton and after that huge burden is lifted goes on to have his best year ever.
One time in fantasy basball I stayed away from a player because of his mental state, specifically when Schilling’s wife was diagnosed with skin cancer. I think that was the year that Johnson came from behind to edge him in the Cy Young award.
See what he says. Buy low. Move DeRosa to a 5 starts a week utility man.
December 14th, 2007 at 3:41 pm
Wunders Cemetery and Graceland Cemetary - just north on Clark from the Field - would be a great location for a new field.
Dude, did you see Poltergeist?
December 14th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
Roberts injected himself once or twice in 2003, and had a big year in 2005?
Aren’t steroids supposed to work faster than that?
Hehe…who knows right? That’s what he supposedly admitted to Bigbie. Maybe after a bad 2004, he did more in 2005. Maybe he never touched anything again.
I’m more worried about how Roberts will handle this all than anything. The guy has a bad month and we all know what the papers will be saying.
December 14th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
|Anyone think Palmeiro was telling the truth? Maybe Miggy really did give him the wrong needle?|
I think that anyone who is giving himself shots is probably a steriod user. Who here has ever given himself one?
I had a girlfriend whose little brother had to give himself daily HGH shots (maybe it was every other day, it was a lot). How not fun would that be?
December 14th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
I’ve bought myself shots; does that count?
December 14th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
Rob, if he moved to HGH in 2006 and 2007…and they still don’t test for it…then why wouldn’t he continue to use it in 2008 and generate similar numbers for the Cubs? He’ll stop now because Larry Bigbie and Mitchell put him on a list?
And I think its likely Bigbie is blowing smoke. One thing little-remembered about Roberts’ 18 HR season in 2005 was that he had 9 HRs in the first five weeks of the season and 9 HRs the rest of the way, a pace similar to what he’s done ever since then. That’s a fluke, plain and simple, of him just having one of those months of seeing every fastball in slow motion. You take out those first five flukey weeks of 2005, his 2005 season is in line with his 2006 and 2007 performance.
Was Palmeiro telling the truth? WWRSS? What would Ryne Sandberg say?
December 14th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
“Biggest obstacles - cemetery removal ”
And you thought the billy goat curse was bad.
December 14th, 2007 at 3:51 pm
I’ve bought myself shots; does that count?
No. That’s a PID. Performance Inhibiting Drug.
Also acceptable, HWDH… Human Whiskey Dick Hormone.
December 14th, 2007 at 3:58 pm
Baltimore Sun columnist defending Roberts today. Although I disagree with all these guys that criticize players for not talking to the McCarthy-like Mitchell
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sp.....0445.story
December 14th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
And I think its likely Bigbie is blowing smoke.
Bigbie didn’t say anything about 2005, it was 2003 that Roberts injected himself supposedly. He may very well have never taken another PED in his life and may not have even taken those.
You better be sure if you’re Hendry trying to make this trade though. And is Gallagher/Murton/Epat/Guzman worth the risk or whatever the deal currently is?
December 14th, 2007 at 4:14 pm
Rangers sign FUKU-2
http://tinyurl.com/2d7udc
December 14th, 2007 at 4:21 pm
DC Tom:
“If I’m a potential owner, the reason I would not want to buy Wrigley is to obtain leverage over the city or the state to get them to finance improvements or a replacement.”
While I understand that thought process, the city/state buying Wrigley is stupid. What happens if the new owner moves out 3 years later? The taxpayers are there holding a relic of a park with no use for it. They would almost be forced to knock it down.
December 14th, 2007 at 4:21 pm
Oh, yeah, if I’m Hendry I’m trying to find a way to see if I can get Roberts to willfully take a blood test as part of a physical. And if I’m Roberts’s advisor and I know he’s clean, I consider doing it, as that would be one way to clear his name.
I don’t think the price for Roberts is that high, certainly not both Epat and Murton. The O’s still need to fill SS and CF (they did not offer Korey arbitration), so I think they may ask for Marshall and Fuld but would take Gallagher and Cedeno.
December 14th, 2007 at 4:24 pm
supposedly some “Orioles insider” post at Orioles Hangout and actually have a record of breaking their trades.
That Gallagher/Murton/Epat/Guzman deal was supposedly the latest offer from the Cubs but O’s are hoping for Pie or Colvin instead of Murton and Epat.
just a rumor though..
December 14th, 2007 at 4:24 pm
manny, that’s precisely the point I was trying to make.
If I’m a potential owner, buying the Cubs while the city owns Wrigley with a favorable lease is more valuable than owning the Cubs and Wrigley together. Because if I don’t own the stadium, I can make threats and get the taxpayers to finance all sorts of improvements that benefit me but don’t make economic sense. Only an irrational economic actor (the government) would consider such a deal.
December 14th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
Gallagher/Murton/Epat/Guzman
That would be an awful deal for the Cubs…
December 14th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
The Real Neal:
“I think that anyone who is giving himself shots is probably a steriod user. Who here has ever given himself one?”
Stupid comment…
I am a Type 1 Diabetic and give myself 4 shots of insulin a day. Am I a steroid user? Come on…
December 14th, 2007 at 4:27 pm
well according to that Sneed article (pure gossip of course):
To wit: Sneed hears rumbles the John Canning group, which is vying to buy the Chicago Cubs and includes Tribune insiders like Andy McKenna, were well briefed about the possible sale of Wrigley Field to the state — and may have been trying to push it along because it would benefit them as possible future owners of the Cubs.
December 14th, 2007 at 4:32 pm
something like 9 teams contacted Prior’s agent so far…
Astros are the only confirmed one…
December 14th, 2007 at 4:35 pm
“Stupid comment…”
My bad Manny, I didn’t realize that Tejada and Palmeiro were diabetics.
Why is context such a hard concept to grasp?
December 14th, 2007 at 4:47 pm
The Real Neal:
“My bad Manny, I didn’t realize that Tejada and Palmeiro were diabetics.”
You don’t know if they are or aren’t.
“Why is context such a hard concept to grasp?”
Context? Then why did you talk about “anyone”? And then say” “Who here has ever given himself one?” You asked, I answered. Again, stupid comment.
December 14th, 2007 at 4:53 pm
Padres and Rusch finally agree on their minor league deal
Lamb to the Twins on 2 yr deal
December 14th, 2007 at 4:57 pm
Sun-Times says the new owner would have to sign off on a 30-year lease if the state does in fact purchase Wrigley.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/p.....14.article
“Whoever buys the Cubs would be required to sign an “ironclad commitment” to keep the team at Wrigley Field for the next 30 years, under a plan entertained by Gov. Blagojevich and condemned by Mayor Daley to have the state acquire and renovate the landmark stadium, officials said Thursday.”
December 14th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
I’m curious, Sosa wasn’t on the Mitchell list, and I know that the list was of course not exclusive end-all be-all of those who have taken steroids. But why wouldn’t it include Sosa if he so obviously took steroids?
And I know someone mentioned this on every thread so far in the post-Mitchell Report era, but DAMN, Gammons and Kurkjian are some TOUCHY dudes about this, eh? Defensive as hell. Why so f’ing defensive? Why was it a ‘travesty’ to baseball’s innocence when Caminiti did it but we all need to ‘wait and see’ with Clemens? One has been proven, the other not?
December 14th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
“You don’t know if they are or aren’t.”
I think it may have come out in the course of their careers, particuarly since they’ve both been accused of injecting steriods.
I acknowledged right in that post that there are legitimate reasons for giving yourself a shot, I would quote it again but you obvisiouly can’t read an entire post without making an opinion.
But in case anyone else has trouble with the concept of context I will elaborate.
Who here has ever given himself an uneccessary shot?
December 14th, 2007 at 5:07 pm
“Why was it a ‘travesty’ to baseball’s innocence when Caminiti did it but we all need to ‘wait and see’ with Clemens?”
Didn’t Caminiti admit it?
December 14th, 2007 at 5:10 pm
“What happens if the new owner moves out 3 years later?”
There’s no way someone is going to sign a year to year lease. They would sign something like a 10 or 15 year lease. Even the government wouldn’t be stupid enough to do something like that……oh wait, yeah they probably are stupid enough
December 14th, 2007 at 5:13 pm
But why wouldn’t it include Sosa if he so obviously took steroids?
Because the report only included players where there was “evidence” from either documented sources or from someone “telling on them.”
All it means is that Sosa, and others who may or may not have done PEDs, were not connected to PEDs through any of the sources that the Mitchell committee spoke with.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:20 pm
Cool, thanks Dave. One more question, though. How did Mitchell decide who to get access to? Why did the report stop gathering evidence when it did? It seems like this was a semi-random process of fact gathering. In short, did he have a few people he and his commission targeted, and then it just snowballed, or was it random all the way down?
December 14th, 2007 at 5:21 pm
From Jerry Crasnick at ESPN’s article:
“I’m in favor of a separate Rogues Wing which would allow Bonds, McGwire, Clemens, Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson to all get in,” said Paul Sullivan of the Chicago Tribune. “Then we wouldn’t have to do any more annual surveys on who belongs.”
Probably the funniest thing I’ve ever seen Sullivan write. It’s a pretty good idea too.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:21 pm
Guys, it’s time to move on. I have visited and loved Wrigley just as much as you, but I feel it’s time for a new ballpark.
I visited my cousin out in San Diego a few summers ago, and went to Petco Park. That place is beautifully done, and I recommend a trip there to anyone visiting San Diego in the summer. If the Cubs could come up with a design that was just as great as PETCO, I would be thrilled to see them move out of Wrigley.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:25 pm
“Anyone think Palmeiro was telling the truth? Maybe Miggy really did give him the wrong needle?”
This is a very interesting idea. However, if this is even close to true, Miggy gave Palmeiro that shot with a wink.
“Sure Raffy, just try this B-12 shot. It’ll cure what ails ya!”
December 14th, 2007 at 5:26 pm
A’s traded Haren to D-Backs… per ESPN.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:26 pm
And Valverde gets traded to Houston…
December 14th, 2007 at 5:26 pm
Haren traded to D-Backs for 6 plaeyrs
December 14th, 2007 at 5:30 pm
Valverde for Burke and Qualls btw..
December 14th, 2007 at 5:34 pm
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/.....TTUU9P.DTL
Haren, Conor Robertson for Carlos Gonzalez, Brett Anderson, Greg Smith and 3 others.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:34 pm
“http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-071214baseballchatondemand-html,0,981159.htmlstory”
Not too bad if you have 20 minutes and don’t mind two exteremly boring speakers who don’t even have all their facts right.
The big thing was Sullivan says that Santiago said ‘Why don’t you investigate Sosa?” “When Sullivan replied, “I’ll do it, tell me what he’s doing”, Santiago wouldn’t say anything (paraphrasing).
December 14th, 2007 at 5:40 pm
Aaron Cunningham, Chris Carter and Dana Eveland are the other 3…
December 14th, 2007 at 5:42 pm
Dbacks also get pitcher Juan Gutierrez from the Astros
final tally…
Dbacks: Haren, Robertson, Burke, Qualls, Guiterrez
A’s: Brett Anderson, Greg Smith, Dana Eveland, Carlos Gonzalez, Aaron Cunningham and Chris Carter
Astros: Valverde
December 14th, 2007 at 5:44 pm
People giving each other the wrong needles isn’t too far-fetched. I once watched a movie where Shooter McGavin gave Mickey Mantle a shot in the side of his buttocks for Mickey’s flu and Mickey got all infected and couldn’t challenge Roger Maris for Babe Ruth’s home run record.
F’ing Shooter McGavin, ruining history as always.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:45 pm
I of course I don’t think that’s really true about Raffy, but it would be rather funny.
Well to me, not Raffy.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:53 pm
Dbacks had sent Alberto Callapso to the Royals for P Billy Buckner earlier so don’t think O-Dawg is suddenly available.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:54 pm
That’s a hell of a hall for the A’s. One non-Beane guy in there.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:54 pm
lets see..we have players accidently shooting up the wrong stuff after borrowing needles of chemicals from friends.
we have dentists treating tumors…dentists treating arm soreness…and dentists treating other stuff that isnt teeth.
yeah…i love this era.
December 14th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
http://images.jrcinteractive.c.....S_copy.jpg
lulz.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:10 pm
Dbacks just got very good though.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:17 pm
is Randy Johnson suppose to be back next year?
December 14th, 2007 at 6:26 pm
yeah…
December 14th, 2007 at 6:29 pm
definitely the makings of a nice rotation….
still not going to survive by getting outscored but Drew, Jackson, Young, Reynolds, etc…could all be in for some improvement.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:33 pm
Does this make Dan Haren more valuable in fantasy baseball?
December 14th, 2007 at 6:35 pm
Yes Rob, Randy Johnsin will be back this season, and they already traded for closer Valvarde and trying to get Mark Prior. If Mark Prior returns to form, Watch Out for the Astros for 2nd place and maybe a wildcard birth if they keep at it.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:36 pm
not at all, mightt as well just dump him for…let’s say Ted Lilly?
moves to one of the friendlier hitters parks but I’m sure it won’t change much.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:37 pm
Yes Rob, Randy Johnsin will be back this season, and they already traded for closer Valvarde and trying to get Mark Prior. If Mark Prior returns to form, Watch Out for the Astros for 2nd place and maybe a wildcard birth if they keep at it.
Huh?
Johnson’s on the Dbacks…Prior might pitch in May. Astros will be .500 at best.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:38 pm
I’ve been trying to move Haren for Morgan Ensberg, but the BV owner ain’t bitin’ or somethin’. I can’t even get a response from him.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:40 pm
mannytrillo:
I agree with you that the Cubs need to upgrade SS and CF before second base, but they also need to upgrade the top of the order (either leadoff or No. 2) with speed and on-base percentage, and they’re not going to get a SS to do that.
So that leaves 2B and CF.
If Roberts can be acquired, he’s better than any CF they can add to the lineup at this time.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:43 pm
Any of you guys noticed the ESPN “Featured Comment”
awesome stuff….
Oakland is mistaken by trading a proven player for prospects…too big of a chance.
dukefan41412
December 14th, 2007 at 6:44 pm
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....llo/071214
“I would just like to thank the Brewers for not waiting five days for the Mitchell Report to come out before signing me to a $10 million contract last weekend. You guys rock.” — Eric Gagne
December 14th, 2007 at 6:46 pm
same link…
“Notice what color George Mitchell is? Exactly.” — Gary Sheffield
December 14th, 2007 at 6:46 pm
Estes as well as Rusch to Padres on minor league deals…
December 14th, 2007 at 6:50 pm
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....p;c_id=mlb
Melvin calls the Gagne signing a “black eye” and said they were in deep discussions for Tejada.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:54 pm
Hey Rob,
The guy (forgot his name) from Baseball Prospectus was on Mike Murphy show in which Murphy played the tape from last year which the guy projected the Cubs and White Sox records in which he was right on target. Murphy asked him to project the amount of games the Cubs would win, he said 90 games. Then he projected Fukodomw will hit .300 with 20 HR.
December 14th, 2007 at 6:57 pm
Re: Comment 100,
I forgot to include the 90 win projection from Baseball Prospectus was if they played right now with their current roster
December 14th, 2007 at 6:57 pm
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html
SI.com: Can you give us a sense of what happened when you approached these players? Was it, “Mr. Roger Clemens, I’d like to talk to you?” Or “Mr. Clemens I have some potentially explosive information, I’d like to talk to you?”
Mitchell: Under the Collective Bargaining rules all communications had to be done through their representatives. So I wrote letters to the Players’ Association. I provided a list of those whose names [had come up.] In the initial letter, I identified the team the player was with and the year in which the allegation occurred. There was some confusion about whether I had intended to provide them with information. I had said publicly on many occasions that I had. A couple of months ago, that was clarified. They understood clearly that I would provide them with whatever information I had. I would give them a chance to review [the allegations] with their attorney and respond. And almost without exception the response I got was a letter from the Players’ Association saying they declined.
Every player listed was informed starting in June that there was info out there on them….
December 14th, 2007 at 6:59 pm
The guy (forgot his name) from Baseball Prospectus was on Mike Murphy show in which Murphy played the tape from last year which the guy projected the Cubs and White Sox records in which he was right on target. Murphy asked him to project the amount of games the Cubs would win, he said 90 games. Then he projected Fukodomw will hit .300 with 20 HR.
Sheehan, Carroll or Nate Silver I assume…
woo…90 hypothetical wins…
December 14th, 2007 at 7:24 pm
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12.....ref=slogin
seems one player kept his name out of the report by cooperating…
December 14th, 2007 at 7:34 pm
looks like h.waxman is gonna continue this thing to step 2…he wants a congressional hearing on the findings of the mitchell report…along with a few other weird demands like saving blood/urine to test later for HGH.
December 14th, 2007 at 7:49 pm
He added, “Now, of course, anyone who has been named would like to see everyone else named, but that means you never get to the end of it.”
Wow, looks like there’s gonna be some MAJOR flippin’ over these next few months. Get me some popcorn and jujy fruits!
December 14th, 2007 at 7:54 pm
http://blog.washingtonpost.com.....v=rss_blog
Gary Bennett admits his part is true.
December 14th, 2007 at 7:55 pm
oh whoops..so Luis Vizcaino is going to the Rockies, not the Brewers.
December 14th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
btw, anyone notice that Dusty’s fantastic managerial record was accumulated with a clubhouse more roided up than the Hulk?
December 14th, 2007 at 8:09 pm
re #96:
“”Whatever. This means nothing. People are still going to remember me as a guy who got to sleep with Halle Berry.” — David Justice”
Wasn’t he the guy who slapped around Halle Berry?
December 14th, 2007 at 8:09 pm
The day I give myself a shot is the day I’m shooting straight test.
Seriously. Outside of diabetics (and honestly, we WOULD know, they’re public figures who do athletic feats for a living, it’s something that would make it out) there’s almost no reason to give yourself shots. I had the option to take allergy shots or administer them myself. You’ve gotta have quite a powerful frame of mind, or quite a strong motivation, in order to poke yourself with something. And allergy shots aren’t a big deal.
Legit question time: what’s the benefits of injecting B12? I’m too busy procrastinating to do a PubMed search.
December 14th, 2007 at 8:21 pm
Fukakkedome has nothing on this guy…
http://deadspin.com/sports/and.....333908.php
December 14th, 2007 at 8:30 pm
Anyone who thinks there will be a new Cubs park anywhere in Chicago is stoned. They just finished resurfacing it. It is in outstanding shape. The only thing I’m concerned about is the naming rights being sold to say a cell phone service provider. I doubt it will keep the Wrigley name its entire life, it’s surprising it has the name today.
December 14th, 2007 at 8:31 pm
one of the supposed Oriole Insiders speaks
http://www.northsidebaseball.c.....0#p1624050
He told me he doesn’t think Roberts will get traded.
December 14th, 2007 at 8:32 pm
well considering Wrigley Field is just a corporate sponsor as is minus Wrigley gum actually having to pay for it, I won’t get too broken up over it when it happens.
December 14th, 2007 at 8:37 pm
http://www.suntimes.com/news/p.....14.article
according to this article, the trib would sell wrigley to the state for $1, then turn around and sign a thirty year lease. The state would then do a $350M averhaul to keep the stadium economically viable (adding skyboxes, more concessions, ect). seems fair, considering the sux have the same deal.
only bad part i see is that the state would look into selling naming rights, but you’d have to think they might be able to work something out with Wrigley’s gum company.
December 14th, 2007 at 8:45 pm
http://www.suntimes.com/news/p.....14.article
according to this article, the state would buy wrigley for $1, the the cubs would turn around and sign a 30 year lease, to prevent new owners from packing up and seeing what rolling meadows or another one of the burbs would offer to build.
the state would then spend some $350M to keep Wrigley economically viable (more lux suites soncessions, ect).
Another thing to keep in mind is that MLB has rules for prospective new owners regarding the percentage of money they are borrowing. If the perspective buyer only has to buy the team, and not the stadium, the % of their own money used would be higher because of an overall lower cost. That would allow for a higher number of prospective buyers, which would allow for more bidding, which might create a higher sales price for the team.
December 14th, 2007 at 8:55 pm
Rob,
However another one of the O’s board insiders thinks a deal will go down:
http://www.northsidebaseball.c.....start=1125
December 14th, 2007 at 9:00 pm
one more on Roberts: J. Stark (ESPN) just said in his chat this AM re Brian Roberts:
“the Brian Roberts “evidence” is so flimsy, so disgraceful actually, that it wouldn’t stop the Cubs from pursuing him.”
Again, imo, I am on-board with this sentimate.
December 14th, 2007 at 9:12 pm
Kick the tires on Roberts.
IMO, if this evidence against him is flimsy, the report may be the second-best thing to happen this Fuk’ing offseason.
December 14th, 2007 at 9:13 pm
Rob G.:
“btw, anyone notice that Dusty’s fantastic managerial record was accumulated with a clubhouse more roided up than the Hulk?”
I guess the same can be said for Torre and Larussa too.
December 14th, 2007 at 9:13 pm
Have to say the D-backs moves today make them the NL favorites. The 1-2 of Webb and Haren is the best in the game right now and selling high on a nutcase like Valverde is solid and getting Burke allows them to trade O-dog to either help restock the farm or add a # 3 starter to give them baseball’s best rotation assuming the big unit stays healthy. Hopefully Jimbo uses our trade chips on pitching because I cant see any hitter we can get that it allow us to mash the Phills or Rocks, yet alone Boston or Detroit.
December 14th, 2007 at 9:15 pm
E, Baker:
“It is in outstanding shape. “
Except for the bathrooms and the concrete that cna fall on your head, yeah it is outstanding…
December 14th, 2007 at 9:43 pm
Some of you guys think Jim Hendry is bad …. Flyers GM Paul Holmgren just signed Mike Richards to a 12-YEAR contract extension. Even for a 22-year-old, that is the MOST ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard.
December 14th, 2007 at 9:52 pm
The Wrigley to the state talk is a non-story. Neither the city or state have the money to finace the deal. Even if they did try to do it, taxpayer and anti-corperate welfare groups would sue to stop the deal from happening. The real news to come out of this is that looks the ballpark will need millions of dollars in renovations that the new owners might not want to pay. The new owner should take a page out of Turner’s book and offer to co-pay for a new downtown stadium to serve as the big Olympic park and then or in the case during the Olympics as the home for the Cubs.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:01 pm
heh..edmonds to SD for a A-baller.
wtf is STL gonna do for 08? roll over?
December 14th, 2007 at 10:01 pm
“Except for the bathrooms and the concrete that cna fall on your head, yeah it is outstanding…”
beat me to it, manny.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:14 pm
For you Hank White fans: he’s batting .186 during his winter holiday in Venezuela.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:15 pm
Looks like SD is collecting a bunch of rehab parts this year.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
Anyone getting the impression SD management is just trying too hard?
December 14th, 2007 at 10:26 pm
Oh - Pie up to .239 in the DR. OBP of .308. 6 SB, 3 CS
-sigh-
December 14th, 2007 at 10:52 pm
Edmonds to SD.
Maybe STL should just rebuild
December 14th, 2007 at 11:07 pm
Adam: see #124
December 14th, 2007 at 11:34 pm
No wonder Larussa is still drinking and driving. You would think he would put the bottle down after one of his players died in a car accident involving alcohol and drugs. Whil his Cardinals are letting platers go he is still drunk somewhere cursing and fighting with Rolen. I thought Rolen would be the first to go since him and Larussa can’s stand each other.
December 14th, 2007 at 11:37 pm
My bad
December 14th, 2007 at 11:40 pm
dave — December 14, 2007 @ 4:26 pm
Gallagher/Murton/Epat/Guzman
That would be an awful deal for the Cubs
————————————————————————
Dave, that’s your opinion based on how much value you place on those players (esp. Murton, I’m sure).
Trades take place (or not) in this case when the O’s feel they’ve gotten equal value for Roberts.
I believe the Cubs should get him. Sure a CF/SS other than Theriot and Pie would be ideal, but Roberts still fills that need, albeit from 2B. He’s a LH bat, good OBA performance, lots of speed/SB in the 1 or 2 hole.
Unless Roberts is a clubhouse cancer or headcase, then I believe Hendry should go get him. The only name I would hate to lose is Gallagher (based on potential) and would prefer to see them take Marshall or even Dempster.
However, it the price ends up being Gallagher, Cedeno, and even 1 more (Patterson or Murton), I would do it. You strengthen the top of your order from the left side, add a plus baserunner with a proven MLB track record. Murton has 830 ABs, Cedeno 688 ABs, and Gallagher 14 2/3 IP. In return we get a proven MLB starting 2nd baseman who in 5+ seasons has 3,247 ABs, 186 SB, and a .281/.351/.409 line.
Could any of these 3 turn into solid starters on a pennant contending team? Sure. Would 2 or 3 do so? I doubt it. I make that trade every day of the week if the O’s are willing. My guess is Hendry might get them to take less given this week’s events.
December 14th, 2007 at 11:59 pm
D-Backs just got a lot better.
Back end of their bullpen is a mess, though. Not sure Brandon Lyon or Juan Cruz are the answer.
December 15th, 2007 at 12:02 am
I dont think the Edmonds deal is that bad for STL. He sucked last year and they got out 7 million on his contract. Ankiel can play CF and they can sign a guy Mench to play RF for half the money and get roughly equal production. If they can do the same thing with Rolen and spend the other half of that money on an average starter, they will have improved.
December 15th, 2007 at 12:04 am
Wes,
How can a bullpen with a backend of Lyon,Qualls, and Pena be a mess?
December 15th, 2007 at 12:13 am
Not sure there’s a closer among that group. They’ve all had some WHIP issues in the past. I personally think that’s a VERY important statistic when you’re talking about closers.
I don’t think Qualls has closer stuff. I suppose he did OK filling in for Lidge, but I wouldn’t want him as my full time closer.
Pena maybe. He might be the best of the group. I sure wouldn’t be comfortable with it, though. Never know what you get when you turn your 9th inning over to a 25 year old.
December 15th, 2007 at 12:20 am
… unless his name is Carlos Marmol.
{g}
December 15th, 2007 at 12:21 am
Yeah, trading prospects to the A’s for a big name usually ends well
December 15th, 2007 at 12:24 am
i dont think moving edmonds and saving 6-7m bucks is a bad thing…and they got a promising fringe prospect…
still, STL has sat around doing jack while HOU/MIL/CHC have been pretty active setting themselves up for 08.
December 15th, 2007 at 1:01 am
Edmonds is pretty awful and has been declining for years now. If they got out of his salary, great move.
I guess the same can be said for Torre and Larussa too.
Maybe, but I didn’t have to sit through 4 years of them on the Cubs bench while folks like you told me what a wonderful career record they had.
December 15th, 2007 at 1:03 am
not sure what you linked to there chifan…there’s only 2 posts after the comment I linked to in that thread.
December 15th, 2007 at 1:50 am
in the fwiw dept…
http://forum.orioleshangout.co.....hp?t=56392
2nd comment down…
Later in the show, Jim Hunter said a friend of his who is a beat reporter in Chicago called him and told him that the Cubs are “dead set on getting BOTH Bedard and Roberts in a deal”.
December 15th, 2007 at 1:55 am
Nats inquire about Prior…
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....ed=rss_was
December 15th, 2007 at 2:04 am
it got caught in the spam-blocker but check out comment #62 from LNL about the Cubs having to sign a 30-yr lease if the stadium is sold.
December 15th, 2007 at 2:06 am
with Edmonds to the Padres and talk of Jenkins going there or the Phils, me thinks Cameron to the Cardinals is a real possibility.
December 15th, 2007 at 3:16 am
From the MLB link:
“All of this evidence coming out on the players, it’s all prior to the ‘05 season,” Melvin said. “As we go into the ‘08 season, we’re evaluating talent based on what we’ve seen in the last season, [or] two seasons. Did we know that certain players were doing this? No, we didn’t know that. You can speculate.”
I think that’s pretty much the tack most GM’s are taking. Whether you want to call in ‘head in the sand’ or dealing with the market conditions, I guess it’s up to you.
Sabean should be suspended, in my mind, though.
December 15th, 2007 at 3:35 am
I like to pee elbow to elbow in a trough as much as the next person…
December 15th, 2007 at 3:56 am
Re: #47 above
from the Danville Commercial-News
“DANVILLE — Alcoholism, anger management, depression and bipolar disorder received blame Friday in Vermilion County Circuit Court for a Danville man’s legal problems.
Arian “Keon” Clark told Judge Michael Clary that during his years in the National Basketball Association, “I never played a game sober.”
This admission came after Clark’s new attorney, Thomas Mellen, said the 32-year-old former basketball player drank “a fifth of gin a day for the past 12 years of his life.”
December 15th, 2007 at 4:41 am
“Whether you want to call in ‘head in the sand’ or dealing with the market conditions, I guess it’s up to you.”
how about total crap?
granted, melvin’s not on record knowing anything about anything, but pretty much everyone knows its been going on since the late 80s and most likely since the 70s.
and check out the dodgers internal discussion on p.209 of the mitchell report (dammit…i will NOT call it “the mitch”…damn, i just did).
December 15th, 2007 at 7:38 am
http://www.chicagotribune.com/......htmlstory
Follow the link and click on Question 10
Paul Sullivan admits in a Q&A that the Trib used the bogus WNBC list of steroid users to write a page one story and posted it on the Trib web site before pulling it after “about ten minutes.”
He says he’s embarrassed, but what he doesn’t mention is that he wrote the story, or at least it carried his byline, and the headline claimed Sosa, Prior and Wood were named in the Mitchell Report.
Things only get worse in this segment when the Trib’s Sox beatwriter claims that Bo Jackson won his lawsuit against a California newspaper that claimed he ruined his hip from steroid abuse. In fact his lawsuit was dismissed for lack of jurisdiction. As far as I know it wasn’t refiled in California, but correct me if I’m wrong.
December 15th, 2007 at 9:06 am
Edmonds to the Padres, Cameron talks with the Pads done.
Maybe Cameron to the Cards?
December 15th, 2007 at 10:04 am
Maybe Cameron to the Cards?
Rob… did you just 3/44 yourself? :)
December 15th, 2007 at 10:32 am
cardinals offense is going to be pujols and 8 pieces of just poo. even moreso than last year.
and carpenter won’t be ready for opening day.
they will not finish in the top half of the division.