MVN - Most Valuable Network

16 Responses to “Open Thread: The Break”

1. Peter says:
   

   July 14th, 2008 at 10:09 am

   .500 is imporatnat to me and to all fans since

   1) We have not seen it since 1997
   2) It shows that the Angelos blowing smoke with big pay rolls and little results days are over
   3) It displays McPhail as the man in charge now who also has visions beyond the short term
   4) It FINALLY shows fans that the ship to nowhere has been turned around

   I think we have a good shot at it if we stay focused, healthy, cut down on mistakes and stay positive. No team in MLB is a juggernaut this year. The Cubs may be the best club but nobody is like the 1998 Yankees at this time.

   A few trades may help, but I would like to see us finish a few games above .500 (please win a few Sundays boys!!!!) and in 3rd place come September.

   And if I ever meet Mr. McPhail - now that BALTIMORE is coming back on the road jerseys - I will ask for more usage of the “psycho/cuckoo/pissed bird” on merchandise and on the jumbo tron.

   My .02 for the day.

2. Seth says:
   

   July 14th, 2008 at 11:25 am

   I bleed orange and black. I lived and died with Cal and I truly love the Birds. So far, this has been the most enjoyable season for me since the ‘97 team that was so fun to watch/listen to (the old Manfra/Miller/Hunter days). However, .500 is not important to me. Growing as an organization is. In turn, this is what I’d like to see happen:

   1. Sit Melvin Mora. I am so sick of watching this guy play baseball. It’s no coincidence that the period where he and Tejada were both hurt last year, the Orioles played some of their most resilient baseball. If, by the grace of God, someone wants him on their roster and he agrees to the trade, I would give that organization money to take him, I don’t even need compensation.

   2. Luke Scott . . . when they play the shift, please drop a bunt down the 3rd base line. Guess what, no one’s there!!!! The guy is in the biggest rut of his season, and he gives away 9 hits this weekend. Bunt until they shift back, and then you get the whole field to work with, bud.

   3. As for the rest of the trade names: Ramon, Millar, Georgie, Walker, Bradford- my only quasi-untouchable would be Sherril, but even a good enough offer would change my opinion. I love that McPhail has cleaned house and started to replenish what once was an area of pride for the organization- their amazing farm system. Don’t stop now!!

   4. Regardless of their record, I would love to see Wieters come up and play about 20 games in September. Let the kid swing a little bit against some big league arms and get a little taste.

   5. Print those Bal’mur jerseys as soon as possible. I can’t wait to buy one.

   For the first time in a long time, I am very proud to be an O’s fan.

3. James Baker says:
   

   July 14th, 2008 at 11:40 am

   Peter, I don’t see how a 500 record shows that Andy is in charge. I mean it’s not like Peter Angelos has been sabotaging the team every Summer for the last 10 seasons. I think what shows Andy is in charge is the fact that Andy MacPhail is here.

   If he wasn’t in charge, he wouldn’t be here it’s just that simple.

   I am looking for a competative second half, even if we don’t finish over 500, so long as we hang around and continue the solid play of the first half through the remainder; that will show me that this team has turned a corner.

4. Lucky Horseshoe says:
   

   July 14th, 2008 at 1:54 pm

   Peter please dont presume to speak for all fans.

   If we make the shortsighted moves necessary to end the season over 500, it would prove that McPhail is NOT in charge in my opinion. It would be a return to the “give the fans some crumbs to shut them up” days prior to McPhail. I just think your whole post is totally backwards. If our goal is 500 this year, it is counterproductive to our stated goal of not only rebuilding our on field results . . but our revamping of the minor leagues, front office, scouting and total philosophy. Get the house inorder first, top to bottom and then enjoy the party. For the same reason I think we leave Wieters in the minors all year, even if it means watching Ramon give minimal effort, we make any trade that makes as much sense as the two big ones already completed, we are reticent to trade any kids, we look for a young SS who can mature with the team, not an Eckstein plug a hole for a year type.

5. Peter says:
   

   July 14th, 2008 at 3:01 pm

   No, I don’t presume to speak for everyone. .500 is merely a stepping stone back to a level of respect. Since 99/00, we have been the butt of a lot of jokes. McPhail is making significant strides in a short amount of time. Attitude has changed, attendance is up a bit, and his skipper was a good choice.

   And almost as important as revamping the club is restocking the minors with quality players who may arrive within a few seasons. The return of the old “Oriole Way” has begun. That makes me happier than anything else. Embrace the past and try to mirror it.

   I would much rather be a little below .500 this year and then really be a force for the next decade than a 90 win flash in the pan (like the 2003 KC Royals who finished well and then went back to crap)

6. Ryan says:
   

   July 14th, 2008 at 4:26 pm

   I think it would be wonderful to be above .500 but the schedule is scary. I unfortunately have been teased too long by strong April/May, so so Junes and only to be 20 games under by 9/1 and can’t wait for the Ravens to kickoff. I would predict at best we finish at around 10 or 11 under and lucky to be in 4th place. Here is the lineup I would like to see next season; is this a pipe dream?
   1B - Mark Texiera
   2B - BRob
   SS - anybody but who we have now (Freddie Bynum..WOW)
   3B - Scott Moore
   RF - Nick Markakis
   CF - AJ
   LF - LUUUUUUUUKKEEEE
   C - Matt Weiters
   starting 5
   Guthrie
   Cabrera
   Olson
   Liz
   Tillman
   set up - J. Johnson
   Closer - C. Ray

7. James Baker says:
   

   July 14th, 2008 at 7:11 pm

   The schedule isn’t as scary as it looks. It is home-heavy and we play well at the Yard.

   We need 37 wins to break 500, that is not insurmountable given the way this team has played this year.

   Likely, perhaps not, but not insurmountable.

8. Fred Johnson says:
   

   July 14th, 2008 at 7:14 pm

   The major improvement so far has been the development of Jones, Olson Aquino, Johnson, and Sarfate and the continued development of Guthrie, Cabrera and Markakis. The biggest disappointment is MacFail. His flip flopping on whether we should try to achieve .500 and not make potential trades for prospects. His negotiating strategy that stretch out till eternity that result in trade returns most mediocre GMs would have concluded in 3 days. Why isn’t Matuszak signed and gaining experience ? O fans must end MacFails’ honeymoon. He never earned it.

9. Chip Kiel says:
   

   July 15th, 2008 at 9:31 am

   WOW.

   Fred I would have to say you have zero clue on anything you wrote. First, making a 5 for 1 trade is not something that is easy. Orioles ended up getting an extra player because of it. Most “experts” think the Orioles did quite well. Secondly, McPhail has not flip flopped on whether the Orioles will go for .500. Exaclty what trade did he turn down? He waited on Brian Roberts because he did not like the deal with the Cubs and quite frankly it was the right move cause the Cubs we would have gotten we not that great. The trade deadline is weeks away. McPhail has made 2 great trades not to mention there have been some great new promotions and it really seems the organization is getting it. McPhail is one of the most respected men in baseball. Syd Thrift is gone!!!!!!

10. Nick Ryan says:
    

    July 15th, 2008 at 11:48 am

    I think saying the “future is so bright I gotta wear shades” (obligatory 80’s reference) is a bit much but we are definately beyond where we expected to be. I think we can find happiness in

    1. Guthrie - man run support for him would be a godsend

    2. Adam Jones - Great Kid….way ahead of expectations

    3. Bullpen - except for the last week stunning and mister Albers please get better

    4. Nick the stick! You can say All Star! even if the voters didn’t

    5. Dave Trembley - You gotta love accountability and instilled work ethic

    6. Cabrera for the most part has shown more of the Good Danny then the Bad and may be becoming a pitcher…wait for it guys…remember Denny Martinez was a late bloomer.

    7. BRob - Nuff said

    Now there are problems…..

    1. We need an actual Shortstop….

    2. We need a actual Third Baseman with a bat

    3. We need a Hitting First Baseman… Cue Mr. Texeira!

    4. We need Matt Weiters to lear quick!

    Additonal Notes:

    I want Luuuuuke to be the left fielder so bad but .253 batting won’t do so either he has to hit or we need to pursue other options…..and Mr Mcphail if we could get one more legit starter to takes some pressure off the kids……

    At the trade deadline Huff needs to go and in return we need a prospect at either shortstop third or pitcher

    Take heart we have a team worth rooting for now but the horizon looks pretty good. Heh if the Rays can do why can’t we?

11. Lucky Horseshoe says:
    

    July 15th, 2008 at 12:10 pm

    What a schizophrenic thread!
    Peter, you said .500 was important to all fans. I am a fan and it is totally UNimportant to me. I couldnt care less if we end the season at a .490, .500 or .510 winning percentage. I care that we stick to the plan and execute it well and smartly. If we do that, playing .500 baaseball will be setting the bar too low. So I totally disagree with your original post and agree largely with your second post. They say opposite things.
    I still bristle at the suggestion that we return to “the Oriole Way”. First, there is no such thing. As Lee McPhail originally set the path for this team it meant building thru the farm system, concentrating on pitching and defense and bringing every player thru the farm system learning the same terms, moves and way of playing. Well pitching and defense have been stressed since the dead ball era, there was no free agency so the farm system was the only way to build and the structure of the farm system was based on the Dodgers. The difference was that the O’s executed it well and they won. The Royals tried the same thing long ago with their baseball academy but didnt have the same results. What really bothers me is that some of the same folks who throw around the term “the Oriole Way” are the same folks who want us to rush Wieters and some young arms up to the majors. This is the total antithesis of “the Oriole Way” to the extent there was such a thing. Those teams were based on what the players learned in the minors. Hopefully we are implementing changes to the minor league systems and coaching staffs that will give us the same stability we had back then. But changes to the business of baseball will prevent parts of those systems from working and that has to be accounted for.
    Fred I reject your criticism of McPhail. The points you make dont hold water. Please detail what it is that you consider to be flip flopping on .500. I dont believe he has ever set .500 as a goal except indirectly in response to questions about it. I dont think he has wavered from his stated goal of rebuilding this organization from the ground up. I dont think he has ever intimated a temptation on his part to sacrifice that total organizational overhaul for short sighted short term goals. You will have to give me an idea of what you base that on because I dont see it in his words or actions. I, and most baseball “experts” disagree with your assessment of his trade strategy. While the national writers and commentators are not infallible, most know more than you or I about both baseball and the true story in the backrooms that you and I cant know about. They have sources we dont have access to. So when a Rosenthal, Kirkjian and Gammons seem to all agree that he got the better of both trades and through dogged persistence and patience improved his take as time went by, I have to feel that your accusations are just a fan with a bone to pick. It is a manufactured criticism when you agree that his two trades were good ones but complain he took too long to make them. Dont you see how silly that sounds? Who cares if it took him 3 days or 3 months as long as he “wins” the trade and the players are in place before spring training or the start of the season? And how do you know if he could have had the same return if he hadnt showed patience and persistence? Who knows why Matusz isnt signed. Who cares? How many first rounders ARE signed? There is no hurry. We want him to win for the next 15 years. not the next 15 minutes. Winning baseball organizations are built, they dont hatch full grown. Rebuilding this team is a marathon, not a sprint. You are manufacturing reasons to dis McPhail because there is nothing yet to legitimately complain about. I can’t possibly know your motivation but it is clear from your post.

12. Chris says:
    

    July 15th, 2008 at 12:16 pm

    Finishing .500 is important to me. It’s a milestone that hasn’t been reached in far too long a time. It is not the end all goal, and I highly doubt anyone would seriously play to just meet that one goal.

    You gotta crawl before you can walk.

13. Jim says:
    

    July 15th, 2008 at 3:15 pm

    Lucky, that…was…AWESOME, perfectly said in every way

14. Lucky Horseshoe says:
    

    July 16th, 2008 at 12:49 am

    Chris would you give up even a middle of the road prospect to rent a David Eckstein for the second half if you were convinced that Eckstein was the difference between finishing up at or over .500 but it wouldnt get you a sniff of the wild card? That is sort of the argument I think we are having here. We played better than most thought we would in the first half and a late swoon kept us under .500 so presumably we would need to make a trade to improve in order to finish over .500. Obviously I am not talking about trading Wieters to finish over .500; that would be silly. But would you trade a kid you hoped might be our 3rd or 4th starter or 8th inning set up man someday to fill a hole for just this year so that we finished over .500? I would not give up anyone from our top 20 prospects just to finish over .500 this year. Obviously given a choice between winning or not winning an extra game I would rather win than lose. But I would not do anything that might cost us a game next year or in 2010 to win a couple games more this year. That is my point about finishing .500

15. Peter says:
    

    July 16th, 2008 at 9:03 am

    Can anyone think of a good fix at SS for the next 2-3 years? Do we have anyone in the farm system?

    What about when Cintron returns?

16. Lucky Horseshoe says:
    

    July 16th, 2008 at 12:56 pm

    Peter If I am missing someone I am sure someone will chime in but, besides Fahey and Freddy the middle infielders at Bowie and Norfolk are:

    Eider Torres
    Louis Hernandez
    Mike McCoy
    Paco Figueroa
    Travis Brown
    Blake Davis
    Jonathan Tucker

    Additionally I know that Scott Moore was drafted as a SS.
    I like Eider Torres but have only seen him play 2B.
    We have seen Fahey, Bynum and Hernandez so you can make your own judgement there. I personally think Fahey can play here at SS if the surrounding elelments are in place.

    That is it for internal answers I think. I wouldnt presume to rate Abreu, Davison and McCarthy from Frederick.

    There are lots of suggestion from fans about solutions from outside the organization. My personal favorite is to trade Sherrill for Tampa’s Reid Brignac. With Percival on DL and Reyes injured off and on, they might trade the young SS within the division when their starter is back which is supposedly imminent

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