October 30, 2007
Campaign: No A-Rod
I am not the only one.
I am not the only one who has said the following words:
"If the Boston Red Sox organization decides to take A-Rod over Mike Lowell, I will seriously consider not being a Red Sox fan."
Yes, I would have taken the Alex Rodriguez of before. The A-Rod before "the slap." Before the "mine" incident. A-Rod before all of this was a superior player --- and quite frankly he still is, but would I want him on this team? HELL NO!
I would turn my back on him at the plate every time he batted. I would buy all of the New York Yankees shirts that would make to make fun of him. I would lose faith in all that is holy in baseball.
Why would a team that just won two championships in four years even consider him when the player that would be replaced in all of this would be Mike Lowell. He just won the MVP, he is an incredible clubhouse guy, he batted .324 and drove in 120 RBIs carrying this team on his back during the season. He won over any Red Sox fan who doubted getting him in the first place. He, Mike Lowell, is every thing Red Sox Nation believes in. A hard working guy who grinds everything out, leaves everything out on the field, and plays every day like his last.
THIS IS NOT ALEX RODRIGUEZ AND A-ROD IS CERTAINLY NOT A WINNER.
Mike Lowell has two World Series rings while Alex Rodriguez has none. Mike Lowell has a World Series MVP while Alex Rodriguez still cannot figure out that after the regular season ends and October baseball comes around that it is not spring training all over again.
I am incredibly serious when I say that I would turn my back on this ownership, root for another team, believe in a team that wants to win the World Series and not care about how much money they make. I certainly do not want a clubhouse cancer either. A-Rod knows nothing but how to lose, knows nothing of winning when it matters most. If he ever stepped foot in the Red Sox clubhouse with a Red Sox jersey on now, well, I would seriously consider rooting for another team so much that it would end up killing me.
I am officially starting here on this site right now the Campaign for No A-Rod in Boston and the re-signing of Mike Lowell.
Who is with me?
Discussion
119 Comments on "Campaign: No A-Rod"
#2
Posted by Shawn Medeiros, October 31, 2007 12:06 AM
Thanks Shane. Me and my friends have just been so scared of the idea. I think you would agree that A-Rod does not fit the Red Sox persona.
#3
Posted by Evan Brunell, October 31, 2007 12:13 AM
Honestly, I would have loved A-Rod ... until Game 4 of the World Series. I was willing to forgive the "slap." I didn't even think of the "Mine!" incident.
But what he did during the World Series was so classless. And before someone chalks it up to Boras ... you think A-Rod didn't know?
Selfish, classless, disrespectful. He keeps epitomizing those traits again and again, no matter how much I try to forgive him, because when all's said and done, he's probably the best baseball player ever to grace the diamond.
But enough's enough.
NO A-ROD!
#4
Posted by Shawn Medeiros, October 31, 2007 12:19 AM
Agreed Evan the timing of that story by Ken Rosenthal was well plain disgusting.
#5
Posted by Sean O, October 31, 2007 12:20 AM
So, by proxy, you'd take Brandon Inge's .236 .312 .376 over Magglio Ordonez's .363 .434 .595? Lowell is not going to be a .500+ SLG player for very long, especially with his .342 BABIP this year. We would be paying 3/36 for a player with little to no upside who is regressing defensively every year.
Give me Dunn and a potential 30-40 homers, and 100 walks a year.
#6
Posted by Jordan Gagne, October 31, 2007 12:28 AM
You know i'll give it t A-Rod he's a terrific player, might be the best to play the game by the time his career over. But to think that he could be in a Red Sox uniform just makes me puke.
To think that the Sox would chose A-Rod over lowell, lowell a terrific player can field better than, and is a pretty good hitter, we would also get him back for half or more than half of what A-Rod and boras is asking for, and lowell fits the red sox persona.
Shawn you did a great job on this article and i say sign me up, i would take lowell over A-Rod anyday.
#7
Posted by Shawn Medeiros, October 31, 2007 12:30 AM
Thanks Jordan. I think I would puke forever if this happened.
NO A-ROD, NO A-ROD.
God, I wish A-Rod read all of this.
#8
Posted by Daniel Rathman, October 31, 2007 12:47 AM
NO A-Rod.
See my post on Giants Cove. I don't want him on the Sox for the same reason.
SIGN LOWELL!
#9
Posted by Evan Brunell, October 31, 2007 12:48 AM
I'd offer Lowell 2 years @ 13 M, with a team option that kicks in if he gets a combined 1000 PAs or 500 PAs in 09 for 12 M.
If he doesn't take the two year deal, shift Youk to third and deal for a first baseman. We have pieces to make a trade.
#10
Posted by Rick, October 31, 2007 12:55 AM
Lowell in a 2+1 deal makes sense. Fatten the paycheck a little so he doesn't get miffed at the option year. If he won't go for that, then look for another corner infielder either than A-Rod whose price tag, both financial and social, would kill the team and poison the fans.
#11
Posted by Bob, October 31, 2007 1:28 AM
I won't go as far as to turn my back on the team I've rooted for since I was 8 if they signed A-Rod, but I'd definitely lose interest. I personally want to see a market value 3 year deal for Lowell, when his production diminishes move Youk to third and have one of the 1st base prospects ready (Lars Anderson will be a beast of a Major Leaguer)
#12
Posted by Shawn Medeiros, October 31, 2007 1:36 AM
I would seriously consider but do not know if I could do it either. I have rooted for this team way too long, but I would seriously consider.
#13
Posted by Chofo, October 31, 2007 2:11 AM
Guys, please go on with the "No A-Rod campaign".
I would be terrified to see A-Rod, Papi and Manny coming up against any Yankee pitcher.
#14
Posted by Sam, October 31, 2007 3:01 AM
A-Rod in Boston for 2008 and beyond? I will agree with Shawn and confidently say NO A-ROD! and I'll tell you why...
I dont care about the money it costs ... I dont care about the stats he puts up ... A-Rod has never proven he can put everything aside and preform like he's capable when it counts ... the group of guys I watched fight when their backs were against the wall and come together as a TEAM to win a championship this year is the team I want to watch for years to come ... if we're going to spend 30 million to add to an already winning formula I want that addition to be able to continue with those same winning results ... there is no doubt A-Rod is a great player ... but he is not a great fit ...he is the opposite of everything the Red Sox should stand for and thats why I dont want him coming and setting up his circus amid our clubhouse for the next 8+ years
thats my opinion as a fan ... I can't say what the Sox front office will do ... I know a middle of the order with Papi, Manny, and A-Rod would equal historic offensive numbers ... but numbers don't win championships ... and winning is everything here
no thanks Boras ... you can take your product elsewhere as far as I'm concerned
#15
Posted by Patrick MacKenzie, October 31, 2007 8:16 AM
I don't care if they resign Mike Lowell, but I hope Red Sox Nation's ownership and baseball operations crew realizes that signing A-Rod would diminish fan support for the team. He is NOT going to be baseball's Randy Moss. We never hated Randy Moss. We hate A-Rod. We don't like him. We could never cheer for him and his success. I think it will be a MAJOR blow to the franchise to lock up A-Rod for 5+ years, and I bet he can get more than that. I can say without reservation that A-Rod going to the Red Sox will kill off my interest in the team, in the sport, so I hope it doesn't happen.
#16
Posted by Dave B., October 31, 2007 8:47 AM
I'm not gonna lie, you guys sound insane. A-Rod is a 11 win kind of player, while Lowell is 7 win kind of player. Not to mention that A-Rod is younger and looks like he will never age. A-Rod is FAR superior to Lowell.
That being said, if you wanna argue that we should bring him here because of the money and legnth of the contract, well i catch your drift. I don't like the idea of signing any player longer than 6 years. But, if it had to be done this is the guy. He's the best player in the league and a good bet to be the best player ever.
#17
Posted by Craig, October 31, 2007 9:06 AM
Kind of on the fence on this one.
Manny appears to be in decline, so there's a real need for power in the middle of the lineup to protect Papi and this is a thin year free-agent wise.
ARod, speaking purely from the perspective of talent and tools, is the best player in the game today. It's also true though that he has severely underperformed in the post-season when it counts most.
Then there's the issue of team makeup and the impact his apparent selfishness would have. Hard to gauge that one. I don't believe though that a player can change one's stripes. Even with Randy Moss, I don't think he's turned over a new leaf, I just think that he's been heavily influenced by two very strong personalities who won't tolerate his kind of shit - Belichick and Brady.
Then there's the money and contract length Dave alluded to. Although ARod hasn't had a history of injury (in fact, he's quite durable having averaged 153.25 games per season for the past 12 years), I'm leary about giving an 8 to 10 year contract to a guy who is 32. Not to mention the money. Given his post-season performance, I seriously question whether he's worth anywhere near $30 M a year (or any player for that matter).
On balance, I'd say that I guess I'd prefer to see them try to sign Mike Lowell to a 3 year deal at $12 M a year. I'm not sure that will be enough, but I'd be up for that. The question becomes though, what do you do if can't resign Lowell?
#18
Posted by kevin r, October 31, 2007 9:56 AM
Any A-Rod contract is going to be ridiculously long and expensive. I really don't think it's a good idea just from that standpoint. Plus, I don't like him either, of course.
The one bright spot would be that stealing A-Rod from the Yanks would make up for just about everything they've done to us.
#19
Posted by STI, October 31, 2007 10:00 AM
The problem with Pay-Fraud is that while he puts up some of the best numbers ever in the regular season, he has a nasty habit of turning into a pumpkin on October 1.
And, on a related note, I believe that MLB should have a complete moratorium on contract announcements from midnight of the day the Series starts until midnight of the day after it ends, and fine anyone who breaks it.
#20
Posted by Aubrey Klaft, October 31, 2007 10:05 AM
And when the yanks sign Lowell for 4 years/48 million, what will the sox do?
#21
Posted by Andrew, October 31, 2007 10:13 AM
Replace 'Mike Lowell' with 'Scott Brosius' in most of the above comments and you've officially written every stupid article about A-Rod from the NY Post over the last three years. Congrats.
#22
Posted by Shane, October 31, 2007 10:19 AM
A 8-10 year deal for anybody is insane, let alone for that much money. True he hasn't had an injury yet, but that doesn't mean you throw caution to the wind. Accidents happen and if a player twist a knee or has their wrist broken getting hit by a pitch and all of a sudden isn't the same hitter any more, do you still want to be paying them $30 mil a year?
Dave B. when you say A-Rod is a 11 win kind of player and Lowell is only a 7 win, do you mean that the skill of A-Rod would win the Sox 4 more games? If so that is only .02 % of the season and I think makes Lowell an even more attractive candidate. Yes A-Rod is a better player than Lowell, but not for the money or length of time. If the team was all A-Rods or all Lowells then yes their game difference would have a big effect, but as is they are only one piece of a much larger machine.
As for Manny, he is in decline, but not as much as this year. If he hadn't hit in the postseason this year I'd be worried, but he'll go back toward his old numbers in 2008. When the team needs to fill in for his bat there will be a power hitter somewhere that the Sox can get, and for less than 30 mil.
#23
Posted by Sean O, October 31, 2007 10:20 AM
For me, it's pretty simple: No Rodriguez, no Lowell. Lowell is aging rapidly (especially defensively), and he limits your options far too much in the corner IF spots. I firmly believe we could, at worst, pull off a win-win trade with the Reds for Dunn at first, and we could probably pull a tidy profit given the current Reds' "braintrust."
Rodriguez will have to be signed for 8-10 years, which will firmly place him in the 40s. He hasn't had back-to-back .600+ SLG years since 2003, and that was in Texas. At some point through the life of that contract, he'll have to move over to first base, at which point you're paying $30m a year for a .525-.560 SLG first baseman.
We Want Dunn.
#24
Posted by Shane, October 31, 2007 10:26 AM
If the Yanks sign Lowell, I'd guess Youk would get moved to 3rd and we'd go after a 1b.
#25
Posted by Shane, October 31, 2007 10:34 AM
With Dunn I've always heard he's a butcher at 1b. This is something I've brought up before, but I'll do it again, if Youk is moved why not have Papi at 1B and Manny DH?
Papi's knee issue might complicate it, but the man is NOT a horrible fielder like I've heard Dunn is. And according to Papi's book, he was defensive player of the year at 1b back in AA :). Papi is a big guy, and a permanent move to first isn't a good idea in the long run, but if Manny keeps having health issues, perhaps we should just let him do what he does best and hit the ball.
#26
Posted by Japanese Masshole, October 31, 2007 10:51 AM
On the top of Hamburger-Helper-Handed slapped incidedent and "Mine!" incident, elbowing Pedroia resents me as well.
He will be the Sox brass wallet killer
He will be the Club House Chemstry killer
He will be the cancer of the team.
We don't need him and Sox brass, please don't even show slightest interest of getting him!!
#27
Posted by Craig, October 31, 2007 10:51 AM
I'm not sold on Dunn. He is a pretty consistent power hitter who also boasts a pretty nice OBP, but he strikes out a lot and he's a defensive liability. Though I suppose you could always DH him and move Ortiz to 1B which is probably Sean's point.
#28
Posted by Shawn Medeiros, October 31, 2007 11:01 AM
ADAM DUNN OVER MIKE LOWELL
ARE YOU KIDDIN ME (JIM MORE IMPRESSION)
Seriously, you want to get rid of a player that is one of the hardest players to go to big country reeves in Adam Dunn who is going to continue to break the strikeout record every year.
MIKE LOWELL OR NO ONE ELSE~!
#30
Posted by Sean O, October 31, 2007 11:06 AM
..You'd rather have a player who is worse than someone who strikes out a lot?
Dunn will strike out 220 times next year in the AL East, it's true, but would probably also hit out 40. Plus, Dunn is 4 years younger, and walks his ass off.
#32
Posted by Shawn Medeiros, October 31, 2007 11:54 AM
I will take a player who plays third base, is a better fielder, and already fits in this club house over a guy who leave way too many guys on base and probably knock in runs that dont matter.
We do not need another outfielder if our outfield stays the same.
I would take a third baseman over a right fielder/ first baseman any day. Especially with should be gold glove winner Kevin Youkilis at first.
Makes no sense to get Dunn to me.
#33
Posted by Chops, October 31, 2007 1:20 PM
NO A-ROD! I fully agree with you Shawn. While I don't think I could root for another MLB team, I would refuse to purchase anything Sox-related as long as the Fraud was on the team, and maybe put my fan energies into the minor league team in the small city where I live.
I still love the Sox, but if they sign A-Rod, they've ceased to be the team I know and love, and started being the Boston Yankees.
#34
Posted by Shawn Medeiros, October 31, 2007 1:24 PM
Lowell can do what he did last year for the next two years. He is a better number five hitter than Dunn and does not strike out as much.
I never liked the rally killer in baseball and that is what Dunn is. Lowell keeps innings alive and I think that was evident in this past post season.
Sorry just do not want Dunn and comparing Brandon Inge to Mike Lowell is like apples and oranges ... that comparison is completely ludicrous.
#35
Posted by Shawn Medeiros, October 31, 2007 1:35 PM
Thanks Chops:
I think that your way of thinking is a lot more rational than what I was thinking. I think I would become the most avid supporter of the Pawtucket Red Sox as I live 20 minutes or so away from them.
#36
Posted by Sean O, October 31, 2007 2:08 PM
Well, but you yourself said every 3b is more valuable than every RF and every 1B, so I have to wonder.
Lowell will regress terribly. Nice guy, will have a nice season in the NL next year.
#37
Posted by Dan, October 31, 2007 2:48 PM
Does Lowell have a third ring from his cup of coffee with the Yankees in '98? As for all you devoted fans of a 33 y.o. slow infielder with terrible home/away splits who put on an incredible contract year performance, did all of you turn your back when the Sox let Derek Lowe arguably (after Foulke) the MVP of the 2004 playoffs? Or when the Sox let Pedro and Johnny D go? How does Ortiz at first, Youk at 3rd, A-rod at ss, Manny at DH and Lugo sold high after his world series performance sound for next year?
#38
Posted by Dan Order, October 31, 2007 3:02 PM
My dad was in Boston one time for business. He was in the hotel lobby waiting for the elevator. When the doors opened he saw an enormous man with olive colored skin and light eyes. As this man walked away my dad said "good luck tonight, Mr. Rodrigez." That night the Yankees were losing until the ninth inning when A-rod hit a game-winning 3-run home run. This is the beginning of my hatred for A-rod. Lowell is a great player and on top of that, a Red Sox player. He is a representative of the Red Sox and displays everything that it is to be a Red Sox player. I trust Theo and the crew though, they be aware of the damage that A-rod would do to the organization. As Theo said (speaking about Lowell's contract), "I'm sure we'll get something done."
#39
Posted by Evan Brunell, October 31, 2007 3:20 PM
We all seem to not want A-Rod in place of Lowell. What about in place of Lugo?
#40
Posted by Shane, October 31, 2007 3:24 PM
Lowell's home/away splits weren't great this year, but they had the reverse trend the year before.
#41
Posted by Shane, October 31, 2007 3:33 PM
I don't want him in place of Lugo either, and for the same reasons. The money is absurd and ownership shouldn't go near it. We won the AL east and World Series without him. I'm not saying the team can't improve, far from it, but A-Rod is not somebody the Sox need.
#42
Posted by Steven Roth, October 31, 2007 3:38 PM
Lowell will regress "terribly" if he plays for another team next season. In Boston, he has the wall to toy with and that has improved his production this year. Why take him out of a perfect situation??
I'm sure Lowell knows this, and his agent knows this, and Theo knows this. The contract will get done as soon as the celebration dies down.
I doubt Lowell will want to play for the Yanks anyway...can you imagine him shaving off his trademark goatee to play for the Boss, Jr?
If we had Arod in the clubhouse over Lowell this season (07), the youngsters we had this season would not be the same. It was the veteran influence they had that helped them mature to the level of which they did this season. Ellsbury and Pedroia have voiced that over the past few days.
#43
Posted by Steven Roth, October 31, 2007 3:39 PM
As much as I can't believe I'm saying this, Lugo is going to rebound next season.
#45
Posted by Shawn Medeiros, October 31, 2007 5:02 PM
You have not taken into consideration Lowell's fielding and Maggs had a career year this year. Again, comparing Inge to Maggs is a bad example here because Ordonez is such a better player. We were arguing about two good players. Little bit of a difference.
Obviously you take Maggs over Inge if you were doing like a fantasy draft or something.
I want Lowell and oOo I do remember when he came here that he would not be as good as he has been. I do not believe Lowell will disgress as much as others believe. He is too good of a ball player.
#46
Posted by Sean O, October 31, 2007 5:05 PM
Lugo may rebound, but it'll never be to anything good. The best we can expect from him is probably .290/.350/.450, which is a little better than league average. Jed Lowrie's PECOTA line for this year was .267/.335/.393, so whatever your overarching thoughts on our front office, this was a miraculously stupid move.
The upside is Lugo getting off hot and us trading him away. Maybe Angelos will get a clue and realize he needs to trade Tejada, regardless of whether it's intra-division or not.
#47
Posted by Shawn Medeiros, October 31, 2007 5:21 PM
Having Tejada in this lineup would be a dream come true. I love miggy.
#48
Posted by Chris Joseph, October 31, 2007 5:51 PM
Evan, I was thinking A-Rod at SS with Lowell back at 3B before the playoffs began. My reasons were obvious: A-Rod's talent and imagining his bat in the middle of that lineup along with Youk, Papi, Manny and Lowell.
But the Game 4 thing completely turned me off. Any doubts anyone had of this guy being selfish were completely confirmed with that whole fiasco.
So, yea, I'd rather we let someone else deal with that while we keep Lowell and look to deal for a 1B in the future....
#49
Posted by Dave B., October 31, 2007 6:06 PM
Shane
4 wins is a TON. Its the difference between having Kevin Youkillis or Doug Mientkiewics.
#50
Posted by M.A.G., October 31, 2007 6:32 PM
First of all: I'm not going to turn my back on the team for any reason. Where I came from, that's what defines a true fan: unconditional loyalty.
Now, as much as we love Lowell for beig such a classy guy and such a great clubhouse pressence, we have to admit A-Rod is the better player. In fact, as Dave B has pointed, he is one of the best players in the history of baseball. So, if we sign him, is not really a "tragedy".
.
But I really don't like the lenght of the contract A-Rod is gonna require to sign. I don't want to sign a contract for more than 6 years with a player who is 32. Period. Especially when we have talent in the minors like Lars Anderson, Will Middlebrooks and Michael Almanzar.
On the other hand: ¬øNobody else have been thinking about Miguel Cabrera? He is in the top of my wish list. If we could trade Coco and other prospects for him I would be VERY happy.
#51
Posted by Manuel, October 31, 2007 6:34 PM
all i have to say is who ever goes after A-Suck should shot them selfs. Who wants a person who does nothing BUT NOTHING in the post season and who just cares about him self. if boston go's and gets him they going to lost
#52
Posted by Daniel Rathman, October 31, 2007 6:47 PM
I'm just not an A-Rod fan, but I can't stand Lugo, so I would take A-Rod over him. Not Lowell though.
On the other hand, can we even realistically afford to do that? Assume Lowell signs for 3/30-ish, and we don't trade Manny, then add A-Rod for 6/180. We'd have to dump Lugo and his contract on someone, but he's virtually un-tradeable. Or keep him as a pinch-runner, but at $9 million a year, that's one heck of an expensive benchwarmer.
I'm not too keen on seeing our payroll bloat to $200 million -- or any higher than the Yankees'. If we can get A-Rod without doing that, and lose Lugo instead of Lowell, I'm all for it, I guess.
But this...
1. Ellsbury, CF
2. Pedroia, 2B
3. Papi, DH
4. A-Rod, SS
5. Manny, LF
6. Lowell, 3B
7. Youkilis, 1B
8. Varitek, C
9. Drew, RF
...just seems like the pipe dream of all pipe dreams.
#53
Posted by M.A.G., October 31, 2007 6:49 PM
A-Rod is a better player than Lowell. That's unquestionable. But I don't want to sign for 6 or more years for a player who is 32. Especially when we have talent like Lars Anderson, Will Middlebrooks or Michael Almanzar in the minors.
My personal preference: MIGUEL CABRERA. He is in the top of my wish list, and if we could trade Coco and other prospects for him, I would be very, very happy.
#54
Posted by Shawn Medeiros, October 31, 2007 7:11 PM
Miguel Cabrera would be amazing in a Red Sox uniform especially since he can also play left field so imagine if Manny sits out a day you put him in left ... youk at third ... and someone at first.
Would be quite nice.
#55
Posted by Sam, October 31, 2007 8:07 PM
that is a sick lineup on paper ... but how many times have the Yankees had historic line-ups that didn't take them all the way? I just don't think he's a good fit here for the clubhouse or for the organization ... I mean like it or not if we fork out that kind of cash for him he would become the face of our franchise ... classless, overpaid, and selfish ... I don't want to become the new Yankees ... and I don't think we should go against the system that work beautifully this year just because we can't stop drooling over a lineup that looks insane on paper ... he just doesn't fit
#56
Posted by Dan, October 31, 2007 8:24 PM
First and foremost- sign Lowell. The guy is just awesome- a great player and a first class kind of guy.
I personally don't dislike A-rod that much. The slap certainly lost him some points, but there are certainly players on the yanks that i hate more. So if (i know this is unlikely, but i can dream right?) we could package coco and lugo somewhere for something, i would 110% support bringing a-rod in at SS.
#57
Posted by Daniel Rathman, October 31, 2007 8:47 PM
If we were to package Coco and Lugo for a half-decent prospect, we'd need a ton of alcohol and probably some horse tranquilizer for the other GM.
#58
Posted by Mostly Running., October 31, 2007 11:44 PM
I'll bring the horse tranquilizers.
A-Rod to the sox means I have to root for the Padres, KC or (god forbid) Seattle even more adamantly. Don't make me do it Theo, for god's sake, please don't.
#59
Posted by hynes, November 1, 2007 12:11 AM
As soon as you throw out something stats and start making team decisions with your heart instead of your head you'll have the 2006/2007 Chicago White Sox.
I love(d) having Lowell taking that corner this year. He's a great team player, but the only reason we're even talking about not signing ARod is because HE WAS A YANKEE. THAT'S IT. I don't understand why we have problems taking former Yankee players but the Yanks seem to have no problems taking our free agents.
And according to Buster Olney over at ESPN, expect Cashman to push hard for Lowell since the Yanks are steering clear of ARod for some insane reason. The Sox just aren't going to match anything the Yanks are willing to give. Not in years guaranteed or dollars per year. If Lowell stays, it'll be because he took less over less time because he loves Boston. Not because the Sox overpaid - because they won't. They haven't before and they won't now.
#60
Posted by Shawn Medeiros, November 1, 2007 12:19 AM
No Theo please do not make me do that also. That trade would need about 20 shipments of horse tranquilizer and a frying pan to the face.
Seriously.
#61
Posted by Shawn Medeiros, November 1, 2007 12:29 AM
Why would the Yankees be pushing for Lowell so hard if he is going to digress ... IDK seems fishy to me.
LOOK I JUST DO NOT WANT AROD ON THIS TEAM AND LOWELL WILL NOT DIGRESS AS MUCH AS DAMON DID.
I WANT LOWELL AND NO AROD, stats or no stats. And I do not think that the signing of Lowell will turn us into last year's White Sox ... that is such a stretch ... where is a stretch armstrong toy anyone?
#62
Posted by Daniel Rathman, November 1, 2007 12:42 AM
Or Brian Sabean on the other end... :-)
...just kidding.
#63
Posted by hynes, November 1, 2007 7:51 AM
Wow.
That's all I can say here. I can't believe that the majority of people here would take Lowell, an aging 3B at 34 instead of ARod, a far superior ball player at 31.
Look I believe the guy does some things that are somewhat classless at times, but the guy is a nice guy as well from all reports I read. He struggles with insecurity though, and if any team out there can help deal with that within a pressure cooker town - it's Boston. Tito works great with players. Ortiz is great at accepting players.
Realistically though I think the Sox's chances of getting ARod are legitimate, though not likely and mostly because of money and the years he would want. But I also think Lowell getting a 3 or 4 year deal is unlikely as well. The guy is getting older. He had a great year but his defensive was probably the worst its been in a few years.
Also keep in mind people that despite the great amount of prospects the farm system is turning out, we have no power bats anywhere near ready. And with Manny falling off and Lowell possibly gone - we're going to have to fill this via free agency or trade. And removing all the played up emotion for a moment, ARod represents the best offensive power bat thats going to be available for the next two years at least for the Sox.
If the money and years are right, I'd take ARod in a heartbeat. I just don't think the Sox are going to offer the guaranteed years the Yanks, Phils or Dodgers may be looking to give to Lowell. Also with the Yanks out of the bidding war for ARod, how can you not inquire and try to see if it works out? I mean, honestly, the guy was worth 11 wins last year? And Hank S. isn't going after him because ARod opted out, taking it as an affront of his desire to being a Yankee? PLEEEEAAASSSEEEE! If I can put up with Manny's annoying antics for all these years, I can put up with ARod. Seriously.
#64
Posted by hynes, November 1, 2007 7:56 AM
Also, just to remind us how fickle we Boston fans are, we all were moaning about the "throw-in, salary-dump 3B" with Beckett that just won't be able to play a whole season consistently. That Billy "Ballgame" Mueller left too big of shoes to fill and Lowell was nowhere near filling them. Also he had a horrible 2005 and it looked like a horrible move for the front office at the time.
Just remember that we let go a former AL Batting Champ for a player who hit .236 in the NL East before coming to Boston.
#65
Posted by Shawn Medeiros, November 1, 2007 9:15 AM
He had the horrible 2005 with the Marlins so I am not that much concerned with Lowell going back to those numbers. This is what irks me about sports, yes, we have stats to prove numerically what he can do, but sorry guys Lowell does a lot more than just put up numbers and quite frankly do you really think that this Boston Red Sox team would welcome A-Rod.
Let's be honest here for a minute. Yeah this team could help him turn it around but I do remember members of this team asking that Lowell stay in Boston.
You think Josh Beckett wants Kenny Lofton here ... well I do not think so and I do not think as a club they want A-Rod here either.
For me you throw away the stats in this argument.
#66
Posted by Dave B., November 1, 2007 10:26 AM
I use to be all for the Miggy Cabrera idea because he reminds me so much of Manny, but the more i think about it the more i'm against it. It is going to cost Buchholz/Lowrie/Masterson type of a deal and Miggy is going to want a 6 year $140M contract.
Cabrera scares the heck out of me. He is constantly out of shape, he is a real distraction in the club house (not in the Manny way) and he doesn't seem to care all that much about baseball. I can see him turning into the next Mo Vaughn that peaks young and injury (cause in good part to bad workout habbits) ends his career early.
#67
Posted by Jon, November 1, 2007 10:34 AM
#68
Posted by Dan, November 1, 2007 10:35 AM
All the love being showered on Mikey here sounds very much like our previous affection of Johnny-D. And you know what? We all lived and got even stronger. If Corey Dillon, Rodey Harrision and Randy Moss can turn around their image and thrive with the Pats, I'm sure A-Rod can join the team concept under Papi's guidance. Besides, A-Rod has the same agent as Tek and JD, so they can talk business. As far as the money goes, what do you people care? It's John Henry's billions, not ours, and he can spend what he wants. Fenway is already priced out of the range of normal people except for that "special occassoin" once or twice a year. So if they raise tix 10% to pay for A-Rod or a new food court, that's their decision. They will still fill seats anyway.
#69
Posted by tom, November 1, 2007 1:55 PM
keep lowell that is a must, he has the character and attitude to be a red sox.
but what about getting rid of lugo and picking up a-rod?
let me know what you all think of that.
#70
Posted by Shawn Medeiros, November 1, 2007 1:57 PM
Well Papelbon certainly agrees with the fact that Red Sox fans may not want A-Rod on this team but did say it would be great to not have to pitch to him.
He was on Letterman and it was good stuff.
Tom - some have expressed getting rid of lugo to put A-Rod at ss. You are not alone in this discussion here.
#71
Posted by Leunam De Los Santos, November 1, 2007 2:40 PM
Count me in, I'm a proud Dominican from the red sox nation, who wants nothing to do with that guy!!!
#72
Posted by M.A.G., November 1, 2007 2:44 PM
Dave B, I don't want to trade Buchholz for anyone. But if we could work another package for Miguel Cabrera I'll do it in a heartbeat. And I would give him 6 years and 140 millions without hesitating.
Look, the guy is amazing and he has only 24. He still has not reached his peak and in 6 years he will be only 30. And he can play Left field, and that could be great for us in the near, Mannyless, future.
I'll admit his work ethic is something to be worried, but I think that's an aspect that can be improved with the right environment, and the high pressure of playing in Boston could be positive even in that aspect. In any case he reminds me of Manny in that aspect, and we can all agree Manny has work just fine. He has not shown any signs of being injury prone, so there is no real reasons to be pessimistic about that.
I mean, every player has his downside if you look hard enough, but Cabrera is the closest thing of a sure bet.
#73
Posted by M.A.G., November 1, 2007 3:08 PM
About Lowell, we all love him for being such a classy guy and such a great clubhouse presence. But don't forget we have a very good team right now because we are not sentimental. If we have retained Pedro, Damon, or others, we would be regreting right now. And If the Yankees makes a push for Lowell, his price is gonna grow way out of proportion.
So, we have to explore all the options. That's the job of the front office. And that includes A-Rod. I dislike the guy, but he is an amazing player, and we have to at least consider him.
#74
Posted by Leunam De Los Santos, November 1, 2007 3:40 PM
I might be sorry for saying this, but this is my reality... how can BRS hire a player that has problems with the team captain, someone that turned down the BRS because he wanted a ring and decided to go to the yanks instead, how can we take on someone that has NO RESPECT for the game and for his team mates, is that really what the red sox are??? I believe not!!! If the Boston Red Sox acquire the services of A-Rod, I will turn into a Yankee Fan, Mark My Words.
#75
Posted by Dave B., November 1, 2007 4:13 PM
It isn't only his work ethic though. He has a bad attitude in general. He doesn't seem like someone that is going to age well. Furhtermore, i think what we have seen is what we are gonna see, a 10 win guy. I know there aren't many of those in baseball but he scares me.
I also don't really like him in Fenway. He goes to CF way too often to last in Boston. He he continues to hit is over 25% to center his average is going to shrink. Now, if he had a good work ethic i could see him learning to pull it , a la Mike Lowell, but i just don't see it. I see him doing what he has always done and thinking its good enough.
#76
Posted by Shane, November 1, 2007 4:21 PM
A-Rod never turned down the Sox, if I'm not mistaken he agreed but the Player's Union wouldn't let him take a pay cut. I agree that we can't be sentimental about Lowell, if he's dead set on a 4 yr deal or a stupid amount of money then the Sox should look elsewhere, but that doesn't mean A-Rod is going to be affordable. I know it's not our money, and if the ownership wants to spend it he should spend it, but hasn't it gotten ridiculous? 30 million to play baseball for a year? It just helps raise the price of free agents. If A-Rod get his contract what will Pujols end up getting? I wouldn't even want A-Rod if it was at his current contract (seriously if the Yanks won't pay for it, shouldn't that make you worried?).
He opted out for two reasons,
1) He wants more money - as I've said he's not worth it
2) He didn't like it in NY and wanted out - if he couldn't handle it in NY I doubt he could handle Boston.
For either reason it doesn't look like a good idea.
#77
Posted by Dave B., November 1, 2007 4:25 PM
Leunam
You are wrong. A-Rod wanted to come here and the player union vetoed the trade because A-Rod was taking a pay cut. Thats right, A-Rod was going to take less money to play for the Red Sox. Not many people bring that up when this is discussed.
Also, i'm sorry but I don't care about Tek. He is getting old, his hitting is declining, he isn't an amazing defender, and everyone is going to yell at me over this but i don't think he calls a good game a lot of the time. Look at the great pitchers that have struggled when coming to Boston, Beckett, Dice-K, Clement, Gagne, Seanex, Sauerbeck, Todd Jones i know i'm missing acouple but i can't think of them off the top of my head. Now look at guys that left and are doing great Meredith, Riske, Arroyo, Suppan, Oliver, Ohka (circa 2004).
I know all those guys can't be attributed to Tek and i know that pitching is very inconsistent but there are a lot of names on that list and those were just the ones i could think of off the top of my head. I fully believe that Tek has a negative impact on the pitching staff, crucify me if you want. So on that note, i don't really care what Tek has to say on any matter. I want the best players here at the right price. I'm not gonna yield to Tek or Wake or Timlin, i'm gonna ask what Papi or Beckett or Daisuke or Youks thinks.
#78
Posted by Sam, November 1, 2007 6:40 PM
um ... Dave B ... why is Varitek's gameplanning and preparation for every game held in such high esteem across baseball? Why is Varitek considered one of the best pitcher handlers and gamecallers in the game? Why does every Sox player and even opposing ballplayers have such high respect for him and refer to Varitek as the heart and soul of this team ... he is the Captain and the leader of our clubhouse and what he does to hold everything together far outweighs any decline he will have at the plate ... yes he is getting old and is going to rapidly decline over the next couple of years but he's not the kind of player whose going to keep pushing it and trying to play if he's hurting the team ... I dunno I just think if anyone deserves to remain in a Sox uniform until he retires it's Tek ... that's my opinion you have yours ... I really can't believe we are talking about this tho lol
#79
Posted by Evan Brunell, November 1, 2007 6:54 PM
Dave B, can't hold your opinion against you, and I'm glad you brought up that point.
However, Varitek gained the reputation of what Sam just outlined in baseball... because, presumably, it's true. You don't get a false rep in baseball.
#80
Posted by Shawn Medeiros, November 1, 2007 10:21 PM
Sam, I could not agree with you more about Varitek.
And who the hell wanted to trade Buccholz? Am I going insane or did I not read that?
#81
Posted by peter, November 1, 2007 11:40 PM
A-Rod is a total douche but I don't think he's as out of reach as some of you seem to imagine. With all the hype about boston sports this year (I'm a die-hard sox, pats and celts fan) I can imagine there will be a huge push to replicate the huge "jesus christ, this is almost not fair" powerhouse that is the Patriots right now. A-Rod-Ortiz-Manny-Youk? Jesus christ. That just has RBI parade written all over it.
Yankees still suck
#82
Posted by BoSoxFan, November 1, 2007 11:56 PM
Lowell - Absolutely Keep
Dunn - No Way
Youk - Should stay at first
ARod - No way, over rated, over paid, bad attitude and no respect for others
wouldn't be able to cheer for the Red Sox if ARod came to Boston and that would hurt.
#83
Posted by Dave B., November 2, 2007 12:11 AM
I'm not the first person to question Teks game calling ability and i wont be the last. Just because the people on the team and around baseball hold him in high regard doesn't mean anything. What are the players on the Sox gonna bash their captain? And look at Manny, he is one of the most dilagent trained hitters in baseball. He works at it harder than anyone but all you hear is "Manny being Manny." A-Rod is the best player EVER and people are actually campaigning for him not to come to their team for reasons outside of money. What the popular opinion is isn't always correct and i think against the popular train of thought. I have watched a lot of pitcher come and go and most of them are worse when they get here. I'm just curious as to how many pitchers have come here and thrived? I listed off a bunch that stunk up the joint. Once again, its not all Tek but i fully believe that he doesn't help the cause.
#84
Posted by Dave B, November 2, 2007 12:50 AM
I really don't get it, what is bad about A-Rod? I understand the money and the years thing. I don't like the idea of a 8/250 contract either. But getting past that, what is wrong with him? Does he do so bushleague things? Sure, but so does most players (reference Pedroia against CLE). He has a huge ego? Sure, but so does most player (reference Beckett/Schilling ALL THE TIME). He will create a distraction? Sure, but so does most player (reference Manny ALL THE TIME).
This debate is insane in my eyes. A-Rod wll be the best player in the history of baseball at the end of his career. The guy had an EqA of .340 this season, which is insane. The guy never misses a game and never dogs it like a lot of players do. He is simple amazing as a player and if he becomes a Red Sox player I will have no problems with it. Just because i don't like him as a person doesn't mean i can't respect him as a player (reference Ted Williams).
#85
Posted by Sam, November 2, 2007 1:37 AM
I just have a hard time believing that someone who everyone in the organization and around baseball thinks is a fantastic game caller and clubhouse leader could really be that bad ... but I see your point ... you named several pitchers who have struggled when arriving in Boston ... but I will point out also that only one of those guys ever got in two full seasons with Tek ... that pitcher was Beckett ... and yeah we all know how his second season in Boston worked out ... I'm just saying how many guys do you think are going to come to a brand new team and tell a catcher with whom they have never worked, "Oh yeah sure Captain, whatever you think is best. I trust you." ... not many ... I think a pitcher struggling because he's just come to town is pretty hard to pin on the catcher ... and personally I'd rather have Tek handling our newly acquired and our fresh young pitchers over pretty much anybody else in the game
#86
Posted by Sam, November 2, 2007 1:56 AM
oh and I think people say "Manny being Manny' because of the ridiculous dreadlocks, the care-free attitude, and the home-run poses when we're trailing by 4 ... not because they doubt his preparation or his focus when he's at the plate ... for people to think Manny is not a focused batter than they'd have to know very little about him ... or they just didn't watch the playoffs ... cuz if they had they would've heard Buck and McCarver say "He's locked in right now" about a billion times
#87
Posted by Shane, November 2, 2007 10:18 AM
Dave B., if I remember correctly Beckett's one word of advice for Daiske during spring training was "Don't shake off Tek". Beckett floundered when coming here, but I'd see him shaking of tons of pitches his first year when ever I got to see him on TV. This year he was great, and has even said working with Tek is a large part of that. Perhaps it was just lip service, but he said the ALCS MVP should be cut in half because half of it was Tek's work.
#88
Posted by Sean O, November 2, 2007 11:29 AM
Evan: "You don’t get a false rep in baseball."
2 words: David Eckstein. He has a rep for actually being a contributing member of a team.
Everybody saying they wouldn't support the Red Sox anymore if we sign A-rod, are you serious? People are going way overboard with their hate for Rodriguez. Has he ever been arrested? Has he ever made offensive, racist comments? Has he ever attacked a cameraman?
He's an insecure, inner hall of famer who gets more attention than he should because he's so good. Just like Gene Tunney, there are times when people just don't like you for no particular reason.
The more people talk about how they'll quit on the Sox if we get Rodriguez, the more I want him at short next year.
#89
Posted by Evan Brunell, November 2, 2007 11:46 AM
I wouldn't quit on the Red Sox, no doubt. Just don't think he'd be a good fit. If we sign him, I'll be thrilled at the production we get, and upset at the person we get.
But he'll be a Red Sox, and I'll support him. But I don't have to support him ... yet, anyways.
#90
Posted by Shawn Medeiros, November 2, 2007 11:56 AM
I love MANNY BEING MANNY .... I love this AROD debate too. Everyone has good points so far.
#91
Posted by M.A.G., November 2, 2007 1:43 PM
A-Rod is an amazing player, and no one can deny it with a straight face. But I got a very serious problem with the lenght of the contract. He is in the peak of his game right now, but he is 32, and there is no upside for him anymore. And we know very few players age like the aberration named Barry Bonds. A-Rod is gonna ask for 8 years or more, and after his 37 birthday, we are going to have, almost certainly, a 30+ million player in the decline, who is gonna destroy our flexibility.
That scares the heck out of me.
#92
Posted by M.A.G., November 2, 2007 1:56 PM
Peter Gammons report the Marlins are putting Miguel Cabrera on the trading block. Pick up the phone, Theo!
We are talking about a 24 year old phenom with a .313/.388/.542 line at the plate, amassed in a extreme pitcher's park. Imagine what this guy can do in Fenway, and with the Green Monster working for him. The Sky is the limit. And if anyone is worried about his defence we can always put him in first and move Youks to third.
You cannot pass on a player like that just because you have doubts about his personality.
#93
Posted by M.A.G., November 2, 2007 1:59 PM
And, by the way, I'm with Sean O, as well: I prefer Adam Dunn over A-Rod and Lowell.
#95
Posted by Shane, November 2, 2007 2:29 PM
I won't deny his skills, and if he could be had for something like 5 yr 20 mil I'd say drop Lugo and bring A-Rod back to shortstop, but it won't happen. A-Rod is not taking a pay cut this time around, and Boras is going to ask for 8 yr 30 mil at a minimum.
#96
Posted by Shane, November 2, 2007 2:43 PM
Seriously 12/360??? At that price you're begging to have your payroll crippled. He's been a durable injury free player so far. There is always the risk of injury and 12 years just amplifies that.
#1
Posted by Shane, October 31, 2007 12:03 AM
A-Rod could be the nicest guy on earth, a team player and real go getter, but if the price tag is 30 mil a year (or even what he is making now) it is not even close to worth it. I believe the ownership of the Sox has a solid plan on how to run a ball club, and if they sign A-Rod it will totally contradict the vision I believe they have for the club. They're not afraid of spending, but they're not stupid with their money.
I agree with Shawn, Mike Lowell has been great for the team and the Sox don't need A-Rod.
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