December 18, 2007
It's time for the NL to adopt the DH
It's time for the National League to get out of the dark ages and wake up!
Wake up to the fact that chicks dig the long ball, players dig cash and audiences dig high scores.
There is an inherent beauty in a 1-0 game, but a lot more people will tune in and pay attention to to a 8-5 victory. As much as I love the perfect game, my attention will be held more to a slugfest than it will a perfect game. When I watch a game, I am often on my laptop doing a variety of things. (I'm quite the multitasker). Being hard-of-hearing, I cannot understand the audio (I can hear it; just can't understand it) unless I am paying attention to the closed-captioning. This often means that I will look at the game every time the pitch occurs (or close to it) and other than that, pay attention to the laptop.
When there is a slugfest going on, I tend to pay far more attention. I give all my attention to the game once the perfect game/no-hitter hits the sixth inning but before that if the score is 0-0, I won't be able to tell you what happened. If the score is 6-4 by the sixth inning, I'm going to be able to tell you all the big plays. It's natural. It doesn't mean I don't appreciate baseball. It just means that the more people hit the ball, the more people pay attention.
A perfect game is beautiful only in the closing innings. It's fun watching someone miss bats at the end, not the beginning. There's a reason the late innings are the ones with all the drama and attention, not the first innings. And this is why the National League needs to wake up.
Why does the National League insist on being sticks in the mud and having an automatic out in the ninth spot of every lineup? It depresses offense. It depresses attention. As the President of MVN, I have had a long history in recruiting blogs to come write for MVN. MVN started out as a baseball-centric site before expanding. I'll tell you this: it has been far, far easier to recruit American League blogs because there are more people watching them. I'd venture at least part of the reason is because the games are more interesting because there is more offense.
It's time for the National League to adopt the designated hitter.
I used to be extremely for the argument of keeping both leagues separate. Why? It was cool.
That's it. The whole reasoning, nothing more.
This past World Series has shown me how silly this argument is. The Red Sox were negatively affected by playing in Coors Field while the Rockies were positively affected by playing at Fenway Park. The World Series benefits the National League.
Players would embrace the DH being part of the National League because it would allow pitchers not to bat (reducing injury and more time sitting on the pine --- who doesn't want that!?) and more hitters making money. It would improve offense, it would improve scores and it would improve the wallet of that ninth man in the National League.
I ask you: what is the point for pitchers to bat --- other than a ridiculous grasp on history?
What about
Just because you get rid of the pitcher's spot in the lineup doesn't mean you have to get rid of the hitter. If the hitter is truly that good, he can get at-bats. If Owings gets traded to the American League later this year (he won't), I would hope that the AL team would consider giving him pinch-hit at-bats or some reps in left-field or first base.
But the thing is... Micah Owings is the exception, not the rule. You're going to keep an antiquated tradition just for Micah Owings?
History is important in baseball, but history changes.
It's time for history to change. It's time for the NL to adopt the DH.
Discussion
45 Comments on "It's time for the NL to adopt the DH"
#1
Posted by Falco, December 18, 2007 12:47 AM
agreement.
My argument runs like this: The leagues should be equal, else the All-Star, Interleague and World Series dominance of the AL will continue and I think competitive balance is important. You could do that by getting rid of the DH in the AL or imposing it in the NL. The problem with the former is that there is a tons of $$$ tied up in DH's in the AL, players who have no position if the DH is abandoned (never mind the wild popularity of DH's and what they bring to the game!). So you do the latter. It probably hurts powerless or small-market teams in the short-term, but the teams will adjust and maybe my Giants will trade for some offense!!!
And the whole friggin Owens-Zambrano argument is illogical. If they're so great they can play DH or PH and get more ABs than if they would under NL rules.
#2
Posted by Daniel Rathman, December 18, 2007 2:23 AM
In general, I agree with you, Evan -- but with one caveat.
I don't think you can just impose the DH on the National League; you have to give the teams about 2-3 years to adjust (i.e. draft, sign, and trade with the new rules in mind). The D-backs are set with Owings, but teams like the Giants (who have no DH-type prospects) would doubtless cry foul and it wouldn't work. If you give them around 3 years though, I think teams would be much more amenable to the idea.
Of course, you'd have to persuade Selig first...
______________________
On a different note, a friend in Seattle said today that their sports radio station reported that the Sox's interest in Santana is "waning by the day" because the Johan saga is handcuffing other front office efforts, such as finding a suitable trade involving Coco. The Sox are apparently still interested, but could look to set "a firm, early-January deadline for the deal to be complete."
I'd take this with a grain of salt for now, but I wonder what effect the Sox dropping out could have. Would the Twins refuse to trade Johan altogether, or would they lower the price for the Yankees? This is assuming, of course, that Theo's deadline would be firmer than Hank's, which is probably far from a sure thing.
For what it's worth La Velle E. Neal III says he "received assurances over the weekend that the Twins were still talking to the Red Sox."
#3
Posted by Daniel Rathman, December 18, 2007 2:26 AM
By the way, if the Twins were willing to go 4/80, I'm still not convinced that they won't eventually cave in to Santana's demands and offer him 7/140, and end up keeping him. Same salary, more years...risky, but they've got to get people to the new ballpark somehow.
#4
Posted by Mostly Running., December 18, 2007 2:28 AM
I love the time of year when bloggers get assignments from their profs to write an argument he or she wouldn't make in the real world. Good work, you made it seem like a good idea.
A-
Let's get rid of the DH instead.
#5
Posted by Mo, December 18, 2007 4:00 AM
Evan, thought you would like to know that Baseball think Factory linked to this article, and it stimulated some strong debate.
#6
Posted by Mark, December 18, 2007 8:04 AM
As a side note, the NL might actually surpress perfect games. Granted, the pitcher faces the opposing pitcher and gets 2 or 3 free outs, but imagine the following scenario:
0-0 game
bottom of the 8th
2 outs
7-hole gets a single
8th draws a walk
Your pitcher who has set 24 down in a row is now set to come to the plate.
Goodbye perfect game, hello pinch hitter.
#7
Posted by Shane, December 18, 2007 8:46 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong... But you don't have to use your DH in the AL, right? Say if by chance your pitcher can actually hit and has some how kept up with the skill he could, I believe, take the spot in the lineup. Let me know if I'm just making that up.
#10
Posted by Tuesday Linkfest, December 18, 2007 11:58 AM
[...] at Fire Brand of the American League is under the mistaken impression that the NL should adopt his favored league’s “DH [...]
#11
Posted by Sean O, December 18, 2007 1:03 PM
Well, the NL has been a joke for at least the last half decade, and the DH is a large part of it. Why do I want to see people hitting .150 coming up 4-6 times a game? The quality is bad enough as it is watching the NL, this just makes it worse.
People argue that it removes strategy from the game, but it greatly increases the strategy of the front office. Plus, why should opposing pitchers get a Get Out of Jail Free card once every 2-3 innings?
#12
Posted by Jon Y, December 18, 2007 1:15 PM
Evan, I completely agree. I've always been a big supporter of the DH. I can't stand it when pitchers walk the #8 hitter to get to the pitcher with two outs. As hitters get better and pitchers become progressively worse at hitting, this becomes more of a no-brainer.
Is the appeal of increased strategy with double-switching worth the sacrifice of consistent rally-killers and guaranteed outs? My opinion is "absolutely not." Catchers are bad enough hitters as is and are getting worse and worse. So in innings where the catcher and pitcher hit in the same inning, it's almost become a free inning in the NL.
#13
Posted by Evan Brunell, December 18, 2007 2:17 PM
Absolutely. And some of the defenders of the NL are making silly arguments. One said that it was pretty obvious that the Red Sox weren't negatively affected by playing in Coors because they swept.
Um... that's because were were a better team even when negatively affected; doesn't mean we weren't negatively affected.
There is NO REASON to keep the pitcher. Period.
#14
Posted by Michael Edelman, December 18, 2007 2:24 PM
Personally, I like that the two leagues play differently. And I like the strategy involved in having your pitcher hit in the NL. In fact, baseball video games would be rather boring without the NL and it's pinchitters/double switches.
#15
Posted by Daniel Rathman, December 18, 2007 3:49 PM
Actually, maybe Selig will be a little more open to this because it would help ease the Brewers' logjam (i.e. LaPorta could play first and let Fielder DH).
KNBR reports that "the Red Sox have contacted free agent first-baseman Ryan Klesko about a bench job, but are not willing to offer more than a one-year deal while the 36 year-old is likely asking for two years. The Yankees, Rangers, and Diamondbacks have also expressed interest in Klesko."
#16
Posted by Sean O, December 18, 2007 3:55 PM
Daniel-
Pretty sure the Brewers would move the defensive nightmare that is Ryan Braun to DH if given the option. I doubt he'll keep slugging .600+, but a Braun/Fielder heart of the order could be nasty for years to come.
#17
Posted by Daniel Rathman, December 18, 2007 4:35 PM
True, Sean, but I hear he's improving. And Fielder's weight makes him an injury waiting to happen if he keeps playing defense.
#18
Posted by vorare, December 18, 2007 4:47 PM
I know it isn't as scientific as your measure of "blogs that join MVN", but you may want to peak at attendance figures before declaring the AL the more popular league.
#19
Posted by DC Tom, December 18, 2007 4:51 PM
Lemme get this straight...
You're advocating that the NL adopt the DH so that Jack Cust can have wider employment opportunities. Repeat that slowly several times.
Little known secret is that the classic DH in the AL is in decline. Yes, you can point to David Ortiz. But after that? It's becoming a place for washed up veterans that can't run or throw. Let's take a look at some of the DH's in the AL last year. Yep, I'd pay to see these guys hit:
Kevin Millar, Orioles
Jonny Gomes, Rays
Jason Kubel, Twins
Jack Cust, A's
Raul Ibanez, M's
Jason Botts, Rangers
Billy Butler, Royals (ok, maybe I'd pay to see Butler hit)
Doubling the number of DH slots in baseball won't double the number of David Ortiz's and Jim Thome's. It would double the number of Jason Kubels and Kevin Millar. That's an improvement?
#20
Posted by Michael Edelman, December 18, 2007 5:00 PM
Roberts just came out with the "Andy Pettitte" defense of, "I only tried PEDs once, I swear!" At least Roberts admitted what he did was wrong but puts him a notch above Pettitte in my book. But I'm sure everyone will believe Pettitte because he's a "classy" guy (who happens to cheat and lie) and Roberts plays for the Orioles so he doesn't have Yankees class and pride. The same Yankees class and pride that had 17 former and current Yankees on PEDs.
#21
Posted by Daniel Rathman, December 18, 2007 5:28 PM
And, now Clemens speaks, saying that he never used any "banned substances." Too late, Roger; you've been outed!
Interesting piece from Mark Kriegel:
#22
Posted by Sean O, December 18, 2007 5:45 PM
DC:
Quick list of teams that could have desperately used a DH slot last year:
Milwaukee: Braun or Fielder
Cinci: Dunn or Griffey
SF: Bonds
Washington: Dmitri Young
Florida: Miguel Cabrera
NY: Carlos Delgado
Atlanta: Chipper (keep Betemit for third)
STL: Rolen (health)
Dbacks: 1/2 a million prospects, Micah Owings
Dodgers: Nomar, Loney or Kemp
And I'm probably missing a bunch. It's not like these players aren't out there, they're just either on the DL or playing horrifically badly in the field. So in the NL you get both crappy pitchers mangling their 4 pitch strikeout at bats, and then players like Da Meat Hook and Adam Dunn embarassing themselves out there.
Watching Manny all the time, I'm kinda sick of holding my breath on routine pop flies. Lessening that is kind of a good thing.
#23
Posted by DC Nick, December 18, 2007 5:46 PM
The NL never has an advantage in interleague games simply because they don't keep a roster spot or pay for a player to be a pure hitter. All NL rosters have their starters and some platoons, but they still have to account for defense. NL rosters beyond the starters have to account for the double switch, and typically have multiple players that don't hit very well, but can play multiple positions.
In the AL, you'll probably find one utility infielder and one outfielder than can play multiple spots. In the NL, almost the entire bench is made up of players that play multiple spots with the exception of the backup catcher (both leagues have those). Couple that with the fact that another roster spot is used for another bullpen arm (the AL doesn't have to take out pitchers if the team is behind for offense and needs to catch up), and you'll see why the AL will continue to dominate interleague matchups.
#24
Posted by Sean O, December 18, 2007 5:47 PM
Not to mention, as an addendum, how do you think Philly feels about not having a DH? They could have a lineup of:
Jimmy Rollins
Chase Utley
Ryan Howard
Jim Thome
Pat Burrell
That lineup scares the hell out of me, and it doesn't matter who's pitching. With the paucity of talent in the NL, wouldn't the league want to try to keep whatever players they can?
#25
Posted by Evan Brunell, December 18, 2007 6:26 PM
#19 DC:
Doubling the number of DH slots in baseball won’t double the number of David Ortiz’s and Jim Thome’s. It would double the number of Jason Kubels and Kevin Millar. That’s an improvement?
Uh... over .010/.040/.005 pitchers... yes... it is...
#18 vorare
That has been discussed over at BTF.
#26
Posted by Rob G., December 18, 2007 7:07 PM
Overall Interleague Records...
AL with the edge of 1387-1317 for .513 winning percentage.
I wouldn't call that dominating and through 2005 the NL had the edge at 1104-1096. After 2004, the margin was even greater for the NL.
So why has the AL been so much better over the last 3 years in interleague play? Well good question, but it's not because of the DH that was introduced in 1973. Probably because the AL just has better players right now.
And what World Series "dominance" are we speaking of?
And seriously, blog recruiting is your barometer for league popularity?
Awesome...right?
#27
Posted by Rob G., December 18, 2007 7:09 PM
meh...no idea where that "Awesome....right?" came from
please ignore...
#28
Posted by Sean O, December 18, 2007 7:53 PM
Rob, be serious. Look at 2004-2007, and it's a slaughter. The AL is better in literally every single category, and more talent keeps coming from the NL->AL each year. Does anyone think that the top NL teams could compete even with the Blue Jays or the Twins?
The AL is dramatically better than the NL right now. nuf ced.
#29
Posted by Disturban, December 18, 2007 8:21 PM
I agree with the premise of this article, but am curious what evidence you use to support your assertion that "The Red Sox were negatively affected by playing in Coors Field while the Rockies were positively affected by playing at Fenway Park." BA, Run Differential, Total Runs and ERA tell a different story.
#30
Posted by Rob G., December 18, 2007 8:32 PM
Rob, be serious. Look at 2004-2007, and it’s a slaughter. The AL is better in literally every single category, and more talent keeps coming from the NL->AL each year. Does anyone think that the top NL teams could compete even with the Blue Jays or the Twins?
The AL is dramatically better than the NL right now. nuf ced.
I'm not really arguing that the AL has more talent right now, what I'm saying and I'll state this as clearly as possible...
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GODDAMN DH.
#31
Posted by Evan Brunell, December 18, 2007 9:30 PM
#22 Sean O for the win!
$29:
Just because they led the WS in games won and the salient stats does NOT MEAN THEY WERE NOT WEAKENED
Because it is VERY OBVIOUS they were. they had to choose between sitting their 2, 3, or 5 hitters for crying out loud
youre right that "BA, Run Differential, Total Runs and ERA tell a different story" ... THE WRONG ONE. just because we were still BETTER does not mean we were AS GOOD.
The Red Sox with a DH would thump the Red Sox without a DH every day and twice on Sundays.
Rob:
It doesn't have everything to do with the DH, but don't kid yourself. The DH is a big reason. The AL carries that extra power bat, the NL doesnt. When interleague games re played, DHs are fourth outfielders for the NL. For th eAL, they're starters.
#32
Posted by Evan Brunell, December 18, 2007 9:35 PM
Let's look at this list that DC Tom unveiled to SUPPOSEDLY bolster his argument
Kevin Millar, Orioles
Jonny Gomes, Rays
Jason Kubel, Twins
Jack Cust, A’s
Raul Ibanez, M’s
Jason Botts, Rangers
Every one of those hitters is better than a pitcher. And everyone other than Kubel or Millar can be considered a very good hitter. But even Kubel and Millar would be considered good ones. Why waste 500 PA on hitters when you can get more production out of a Kubel/Millar?
Also don't factor in this results in a lot of sluggers moving to the AL near the end of their career ... to extend their career and continue hitting.
Putting the DH in the NL would increase the flow of offensive hitters who either a) cant field or b) are too old to the NL.
the flow is going to the AL.
the dominance of leagues will depend on who can hit the ball better.
That's the AL.
Get the DH and maybe you'll be able to win the World Series and All Star game from time to time instead of those random outliers that occur once a generation due to an inexplicable stat (Cardinals, looking at you and the Tiger pitchers' inability to make plays)
#33
Posted by Falco, December 18, 2007 10:29 PM
The presence of the DH in both leagues is beneficial from a purely economic POV. It makes the pitching better because the pitching has to adapt. It allows liquidity in putting together lineups and the best use of talent. It facilitates more trades (ex- pitchers from NL-->AL), and closes the statistical gap that makes talent harder to compare between leagues.
Reading this thread and BTF one gets the idea that many no-DHers believe a bunch of biased AL fans are trying to impose our version of the game on the rest of the world. As a Sox fan, if I were acting from bias, why would I want to weaken the Sox/AL record or chances at a title? I don't much care what happens in other places, but in the MLB I want a more exciting and fairer game.
#34
Posted by Daniel Rathman, December 19, 2007 12:56 AM
Sean:
Couldn't agree more, though the Zito deal was MUCH worse. Can we just dump Lugo, waste the money, and put Lowrie at short next year? I'd probably be willing to dump the cash to get him out. Or just trade him (no cash involved) to the Giants for a similarly worthless Ray Durham and release him (only for less b/c Durham isn't making as much and has only one year left on his deal). I'll supply whatever it takes to make Sabean crazy enough to do it.
KNBR confirms Walters' report:
"A Minnesota-based source told KNBR that if the Red Sox put Jacoby Ellsbury in the same deal as Jon Lester the Twins will immediately accept the trade, and send Johan Santana to Boston, as was reported during the Winter Meetings."
The source also added...
"The Twins apparently prefer Lester to the Yankees' Ian Kennedy because he is left-handed, and have a much greater affinity for Ellsbury than Melky Cabrera."
I'm actually not convinced that this source wasn't Charley Walters himself because KNBR has used him before, but...My question is, is it a good thing that the Johan buzz is increasing again?
They also reported this morning that the Sox may have a "financially acceptable one-year offer" out to Ryan Klesko, but repeated that Klesko may be holding out for two years.
(As a side-note, does anyone have a good cure for a very nasty case of acute viral nasopharyngitis? I need a way to get out of bed and stop listening to KNBR while playing 10 back-to-back games of Madden '08. Bad start to winter break.)
#35
Posted by Michael Edelman, December 19, 2007 1:51 AM
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2007/12/18/congress_to_hold_hearings_on_steroid_use/
Congress is to have more steroids hearings. I'd love to see what Andy Pettitte has to say about his "two days" of HGH use when he's under oath.
#36
Posted by Rob G., December 19, 2007 2:19 AM
Rob:
It doesn’t have everything to do with the DH, but don’t kid yourself. The DH is a big reason. The AL carries that extra power bat, the NL doesnt. When interleague games re played, DHs are fourth outfielders for the NL. For th eAL, they’re starters.
so over the first 8 years of Interleague play the NL outplayed the AL and then suddenly the DH kicked in and became a "big reason" for the AL's superiority? This is the logic you're presenting? Really? I mean, you seriously believe this?
#37
Posted by Daniel Rathman, December 19, 2007 2:24 AM
More so than Pettitte, I'm looking forward to seeing Clemens under oath. I can't help but wonder if he'll cave in to the pressure, or go the Bonds route. Of course, there's no concrete proof that Clemens ever did anything, but McNamee would probably be considered a pretty credible source after Pettitte's admission.
Also, there are rumors that MLB could pursue a suspension for the more recent roiders listed in the report, including Gagne. The Brew Crew will really hate that one-year, $10 million deal if he's out for 50 games of it.
Speaking of the Brew Crew, they essentially acquired Guillermo Mota for Estrada and Matt Wise (signed by the Mets), who'll probably be better than Mota next year. Anyone want to explain Doug Melvin's logic to me?
#38
Posted by Jeremy, December 19, 2007 7:01 AM
Hey, whatever.
But if the NL adopts the designated hitter, then I think the Pacific League should drop it, so that the universal balance is maintained.
#39
Posted by Disturban, December 19, 2007 8:35 AM
Evan,
My point is that the statement that the "Rockies were positively affected when playing at Fenway" does not hold up statistically. I agree that a DH-less RS team will get trounced by a DH-ed RS one. However, I think that throwing in unfounded conclusions weakens an article that I otherwise whole-heartedly agree with.
#40
Posted by Shooter, December 19, 2007 9:52 AM
I think you need a couple of players from each team to go to Congress under Oath, not just players from the report. I would like to see Clemens go and testify though. Edelman, do you have a chubbie for Pettitte or something? All of your posts are about him...
#41
Posted by Daniel Rathman, December 19, 2007 10:32 AM
Side-note:
http://www.twincities.com/ci_7755433?source=most_viewed&nclick_check=1
Charley Walters reports that the Sox are still in the lead for Santana, and that a deal could be imminent. However, he also says that the hold-up remains the Sox's unwillingness to put Ellsbury in the same deal with Lester.
#42
Posted by Sean O, December 19, 2007 11:25 AM
apropos of nothing, I really wish we'd never signed Lugo. We could be going into a Lowrie/Pedroia/Ellsbury era up the middle, which would be magnificent.
Sigh. Unless Lugo has a first half this year to balance out his first half last year (which would be an .888 OPS), this is one of the dumbest contracts anyone's signed in years. $9m for below replacement level production.
#43
Posted by Sean O, December 19, 2007 2:35 PM
No, but how good is Madden '08? I have '07 on my laptop, and with an '08 roster I've been plowing through the schedule. I can't quite run the shotgun-only offense like the Pats, but I love "NE Coach's" i-form playbook.
Now, do you play as the Niners, or the Pats, or Team X?
#44
Posted by Daniel Rathman, December 19, 2007 3:41 PM
Sean:
I usually play as the Pats, Packers, or Seahawks (though I hate that Holmgren's playbook lacks a shotgun). Madden '08 is fairly similar to '07, with the main difference being that the "hits" are slightly better (not that it matters unless you're Madden himself), and a few of the players are more realistic (i.e. they're not ridiculously fast or awful at tackling). Some of the players, particularly James Sanders, are very underrated, but other than that it's OK.
Worth buying just to get the updated rosters and minor player tweaks, but not much else.
#45
Posted by Michael Edelman, December 19, 2007 5:30 PM
No one tell a Yankees fan the Twins like the Red Sox prospects more. They'll have another fit about Red Sox conspiracies just like they did when the Red Sox appeared close to a deal earlier, and when the Mitchell Report was released.
They should change their motto to "Yankees - Pride, Pinstripes, Paranoia"
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