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Sunday Morning Rumors: Crisp to the Cubs

By Tim Daloisio | March 9th, 2008

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Nothing like waking up to some fresh rumors on a cold Sunday morning. Our friends at MVN’s Cub Reporter are reporting on radio reports in Chicago that there is talk of sending Coco Crisp to Chicago for pitcher Jason Marquis and outfielder Sam Fuld (who hails from Durham, NH, home of my alma mater the University of New Hampshire).

Marquis would provide depth in the rotation and be more of “sure thing” than Bartolo Colon. Given how easily a misstep can occur and cause an injury to a starting pitcher, pitching depth of any kind is invaluable. However outside of Major League experience and health, Marquis, who is currently fighting for a spot in the Cubs rotation, doesn’t have a whole lot going for him. Coming off a 2007 season where he was 12-9 with a 4.60 ERA in the National League, I wouldn’t expect too much more out of Marquis than the Red Sox got last year out of Julian Tavarez.

Fuld, who ranks between 25 and 35 on most Cubs prospect lists, won’t likely be an impact player for the Red Sox but may provide some organizational depth in the outfield. Fuld’s recently been recovering from a sports hernia and is caught behind Felix Pie in the Cubs prospect depth charts.

From my perspective, unless Beckett’s stumble is causing the Sox much more concern than I expect, I don’t this deal does much other than send Crisp packing.

More to come as we hear it.

This entry was posted on Sunday, March 9th, 2008 at 7:16 am and is filed under Boston Red Sox / Tim Daloisio, Coco Crisp. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

28 Responses to “Sunday Morning Rumors: Crisp to the Cubs”

Sean O says:

March 9th, 2008 at 10:28 am

Pretty simple, if Theo does this trade, then that’s the final straw that he’s an absolutely horrible GM. We get a horrible pitcher who sucked in AAA and a non-prospect.

I can’t believe for a second this could happen, even considering how bad I think theo is. i’m calling hoax.
Ryan Hoffman says:

March 9th, 2008 at 11:54 am

To Sean O

Firstly, Theo has probably twice your IQ

Secondly, he’s a GM who has molded the Sox into a perfect mix of young talent and veterans.

Thirdly, He has put together to world series championships in 4 years

Fourthly, maybe instead of posting on websites you should

1.Get a life

2.Learn the rules of baseball

3.Learn the difference between a championship and a losing season

4.Sell your computer and buy a brain

5.Actually watch the Red Sox

6.Figure out that your barely better than a Yankees Fan
Mostly Running. says:

March 9th, 2008 at 11:55 am

The only way this trade happens is if Theo thinks Marquis can replicate .786 ops that he put up in 2005. :/
Ryan Hoffman says:

March 9th, 2008 at 11:55 am

Also, we would like to get rid of Crisp, because is will want playing time and Ellsbury is the future
Mostly Running. says:

March 9th, 2008 at 12:01 pm

Everyone probably has seen this on other sites, but Marquis is on the outs for his insistence on starting. If we brought him in, we would be committing to inking him in as the #5. We would be trading one potential headache for another. It makes no sense.

Fuld is a decent light-hitting 27 year old prospect. Kind of a dime a dozen, even if he did go to Phillips Exeter.
Dave B. says:

March 9th, 2008 at 12:16 pm

Has bashing Sean O become the trendy thing to do now-a-days? Jeez, you’d this he was President Bush walking down the streets of San Fran. I appreciate your POV Sean, keep pissing people off.

Getting to the post, this can’t be true. What would Marquis be? Our 6th, 7th, 8th starter? We are going to pay a guy 8M to pitch like 80 innings?

Fuld is nothing. He would never get a shot here. He would be behind Ellsbury, Moss, Van Every, and Bell at a minimum. He would literally never he time in Boston.

Crisp is far and away the best player in this trade. He was a 6 win player last season. Can someone give me a list of 6 win CFers last year? I would imagine the list is relatively short. He is a very valuable player and to trade him like this would be AWFUL.

Lets put it this way, this would be the most unfair trade I have seen in years. Not even Theo is this dumb.

Maybe if the trade was Crisp for Marquis/Gallagher/Castillo i’d do it. Beyond that, I would be hard pressed to see it.
Vato says:

March 9th, 2008 at 12:16 pm

There may “be talk” but I doubt it’s anything more than wishful thinking and speculation. I haven’t seen this rumor in any respectable news outlets so I’m not going to waste my time on it.
JLow says:

March 9th, 2008 at 12:20 pm

Completely agreed Ryan. Sometimes I wonder if Sean O is actually a Yankees fan who just comes here pretending to be a Red Sox fan so he can start shit. It seems like he’s constantly baiting people, talking shit about the team. He never actually uses stats to back up his points though.

Then when someone takes exception to it, he acts all innocent and plays dumb. Gee, I don’t know why someone would possibly take issue with him saying everyone on the team is a bum and our GM is a genius. Sean O, your opinion on Red Sox deals has been wrong almost every single time, so I think it’s time to shut your mouth.

Glad I’m not the only one who’s had enough.
Mostly Running. says:

March 9th, 2008 at 12:37 pm

I came to appreciate Sean O’s commentary when the comments here got taken over by overly optimistic “fans” who don’t seem to remember what it was like when the Sox were constant losers. There’s a sense of entitlement in most every comment these days, a sense of expectation that the Sox will win because that’s what they do.

I love that they are winning, but I also remember when being a fan meant keeping faith even if you knew they were going to break your heart come the end of the season.

Yeah, his comments piss me off sometimes, but he does cite stats, he’s consistent with his opinions and he will begrudgingly admit when he was wrong. Plus he’s commented here a lot longer than some folks and has written some good pieces on Fenway (if memory serves.)

Address his points folks, the name calling is pretty ridiculous.
Evan Brunell says:

March 9th, 2008 at 1:23 pm

MR: Completely agree. Sean O provides a great service to us all.

Dave B: Even more lopsided than Bard and Cla for Dougie?
Dave B. says:

March 9th, 2008 at 1:55 pm

Hmm, that is pretty close. The thing is, at the time that didn’t seem all that bad. Bard was suppose to be a good backup and Meredith was a nothing prospect. Bard has turned into a lot more than I ever imagined and Meredith has been insane. That being said Cla gets more credit then he deserves in Theo hater circles. He is a nice middle reliever. Those are a dime a dozen.

Can you imagine Marquis in the AL East? He had a 6 ERA in 2006. He has a career ERA+ of 96. PECOTA sees him worth about 4.5M over the next two season. That means we will be overpaying by 10+M. I’m not looking forward to the 5.39 ERA PECOTA had projected with him pitching in the NL Central translating to the AL East.
TheScout says:

March 9th, 2008 at 2:06 pm

Without sounding like a basher, Theo has two World Series rings in the last 4 years. I think we’ll cut him a bit of slack.
Sean O says:

March 9th, 2008 at 3:35 pm

Notice that the fanboys don’t contend my point that this would be a reprehensible trade. They have so little to be happy about in their lives that any knock on Theo is apparently a devastating blow. How pathetic.

It would be an unforgivable trade, considering how valuable Crisp is. If that’s all we get from Crisp, then we suck up the potential 50 point OPS difference and bat him 8th. Then we’re forced to deal with the best defensive outfielder in the AL. I’m sure Clay Buchholz, Jon Lester, MDC, Papelbon and any other young (ish) pitcher we have would be heartbroken.
Red Sox Talk says:

March 9th, 2008 at 3:52 pm

I don’t like this deal as rumored, because we have a lot of guys capable of giving us what Marquis can give us already: Tavarez, Lester, Colon, Hansack, Pauley, etc. I truly think he’d be pretty bad in the AL East. Fuld is too similar to (and not as good as) Brandon Moss to have much, if any value. If anything, he’d be a backup backup backup 4th outfielder/defensive replacement.

If we deal Coco to the Cubs, I’d rather see the Sox land a lefty reliever like Will Ohman or Clay Rapada, or else catcher Jake Fox.
GPOSNER says:

March 9th, 2008 at 6:24 pm

WILL YOU FANS STOP CALLING HIM THEO…HIS NAME IS TEDDY….
GPOSNER says:

March 9th, 2008 at 6:26 pm

MARQUIS WILL GIVE YOU A SOLID FIRST HALF SEASON….THEN SIMPLY TRADE HIM. FULD IS A FEEL GOOD STORY…GOOD ON BASE PERCENTAGE…GOOD GLOVE….WAS PLAYER OF THE YEAR IN THE MINORS LAST SEASON.
LogiFan says:

March 9th, 2008 at 7:37 pm

The Meredith trade really wasn’t as horrible as some Theo-haters acted like it was at first. He had a little over half a year of success in the NL West. Then he went back to being pretty bad last year. 10.62 hits per 9, less than 7 K/9 and a WHIP of .139.

And Sean O, people take exception to you say often because of your attitude. I don’t know if you have a chip on your shoulder or poor self-esteem or what, but you often come across as very bitter. Even when the Red Sox do well, you go out of your way to find things you’re not pleased with, such as the personalities of the players.

Then just now you call them all “pathetic” fan boys. You’re acting just as immature as them by treating them that way. And I don’t know how someone could be any more of a fan boy than complaining about a good team because they don’t like the personalities.
jackie says:

March 9th, 2008 at 8:51 pm

sam fuld = overlooked and underrated
Sean O says:

March 9th, 2008 at 9:21 pm

Unbelievable, I get personally attacked after I make any post by kids who are making their first posts to this site, and I’m the one with the problem.

I actually look at this team objectively, using the numbers. Nobody else seems to want to defend Crisp, or Tavarez’s unbelievably good May and June last year, or Pedroia in April, or MDC in ‘06, or a dozen other examples. People can’t deal with criticism about this team, whether they’re doing well or not.

It’s a freaking game, you all need to relax.
Sean O says:

March 9th, 2008 at 9:31 pm

It’s dead, per mlbtraderumors (by way of Nick Cafardo). Thank god.
Chris C says:

March 9th, 2008 at 11:06 pm

Sometimes Sean makes me pull my hair out by the fistful, but folks, I have in fact met Sean, and he is a perfectly decent and friendly guy. And a very passionate Sox fan. He does tend to overstate things, person x isn’t a ‘bad’ player, instead he is ‘the worst player and human being ever AND he beats his wife’; but all of that comes from passion. And he does know his stuff. Argue with him if you want, but be prepared for actual intelligent debate if you do.
T. Rex says:

March 9th, 2008 at 11:16 pm

By the numbers? That’s a laugh. Please point me to the last time you used stats to back up one of your points Sean. Seriously, do it.

You can’t always be right about everything Sean, the problem is you don’t get that. You think because you’re really hard on the team it makes you more realistic than all the other fans here when in reality you take it so far that you lose touch with the team.
Mostly Running. says:

March 9th, 2008 at 11:47 pm

T.Rex-

[q]By the numbers? That’s a laugh. Please point me to the last time you used stats to back up one of your points Sean. Seriously, do it.[/q]

Burden of proof: do the work yourself before you drop in and throw around accusations.
My Sentiments Exactly « iYankees says:

March 10th, 2008 at 1:28 am

[…] Sentiments Exactly From Baseball Musings: The latest rumor sends Coco Crisp to the Cubs for Jason Marquis and a low level prospect. Marquis would provide depth in the rotation and be more of “sure […]
T. Rex says:

March 10th, 2008 at 1:37 am

That’s the problem Mostly. I couldn’t find him using any stats. He’s the only claiming he uses them…
Sean O says:

March 10th, 2008 at 8:11 am

I didn’t know I needed to provide a complete thesis for every 12 year old who searches for Red Sox Blog in google. Look at Lowell’s 2nd half numbers vs. his 1st half numbers for nearly every year of his career, or Jacoby’s total lack of power in the minors, or Pedroia’s BABIP as of May 1st, or Coco’s UZR/Davenports/WARP from last year, or Tavarez’s Sub-4.0 ERA in May and June of last year.

Or, look at Lugo’s atrocious dropoff after the ASB in 2006, Coco’s inflated BABIP before we acquired him originally (plus his mediocre defensive stats for center field, which he fortunately turned around). I’ve been wrong plenty of times (the numbers showed Marte being a stud, compared to similar production from star 3Bs), but I at least have an understanding of acquiring and maintaining overall value in a team.

I can’t even believe I’m defending myself to some kid making his 3rd post on this site, but there you go.
Jaredk says:

March 10th, 2008 at 9:32 am

Lester/Santana today…chose your sides, prepare your knee-jerk reactions.

Good to see Lester has indeed shown improved velocity…hopefully he gets consistent with location and I think we will have a very solid #3.

Jon Lester - “I’m just feeling better and stronger,” says the 24-year-old left-hander, who won the clinching game of the World Series after 10 months of chemotherapy. Fellow lymphoma survivors Scott Radinsky and Jerry DiPoto said it would take 15-18 months for Lester to regain his strength. But this spring he has put on 20 pounds of muscle, his velocity is up in the mid-90s, his curveball is sharp, and they’re holding back on his cutter until the rest of his arsenal is ready. What pitching coach John Farrell and Jason Varitek see is that where in the past two years he had trouble getting his fastball down and into the strike zone against right-handed hitters, this spring Lester is driving down and through, and powering his pitches to the arm side against righties. “I think it’s a matter of having my strength back,” says Lester. “I think he’s going to prove to be an elite pitcher,” says Farrell.

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=gammons_peter
Gerry says:

March 10th, 2008 at 11:25 pm

Keep up the good work Sean. IMO, Red Sox fans of every age are so happy to be more than contenders, and so grateful to the ones who won it (including Mikey, Youk, Jon, Jacoby, J.D.) that your over-the-top negatives are simply turning them off. If you enjoy stirring the pot, it’s your right and you do it well. On the other hand, your information is invaluable in any format, even if more diplomatically stated, and we all learn from your research. I have, and I thank you for it.

With that said, you’re not going to like my post, but it’s all true. I just got home from the Mets/Sox game, and enjoyed the great irony today at Port St. Lucie.

Johan Santana faced Ellsbury, Lowrie, Moss, Cash, Cora, Ginter and Carter . . . only Tek and Youk were starters; and Jon Lester on the mound. As you know, Lester, Ellsbury, Lowrie and Moss were among those discussed in Santana trade talks.

In this first matchup, while both had dominant 4-inning, 2-hit shutouts, Jon outpitched Johan, statistically, with his 5 K’s, while facing more Mets starters.

Also, Jacoby, as first batter, placed what has become a trademark “hit ‘em where they ain’t” single, added a second, and seemed to get to Johan as a base runner.

Though Lowrie didn’t get a hit, he hit the ball well, but to “where they were”.

Later, Moss drove in the winning run with perhaps the best hit ball of the day, a sacfly to the RF fence. If only Buckholz, Masterson and Bowden were there to complete the circle of those we might have lost for Santana.

I wish Johan were ours, but Theo was right not to have turned over a generation of prospects and 150M.
Today, Lester pitched better, Jacoby was everywhere, Lowrie looked great at 2b and SS, Moss hit with power. Masterson and Bowden keep looking better, and might be essential as early as summer.