July 18, 2008
Manny on the outs after intentionally K'ing v. Mariano?
Former WBZ sports anchor Bob Lobel has come out with some pretty interesting news. Apparently Manny Ramirez was fined for his actions in shoving traveling secretary Jack McCormick to the ground --- six figures to a charity. This didn't sit well with Manny, who may have exacted revenge by looking at three called strikes by Mariano Rivera in a tight situation where a hit could have changed the game.
"The thing that most people are forgetting and haven't talked about is the strikeout in Yankee Stadium," Lobel said. "The bat on the shoulder for the three pitches from Mariano Rivera. That was a big [expletive] to the Red Sox after the fine. I'm just telling you ... there are things in the front office that are perceived ... I'm saying that there is a strong feeling that that [three-pitch strikeout] was the message to the Red Sox and it's a strong feeling that that's unacceptable ... there's a feeling that he didn't give it his all, let's put it that way ... I'm just saying the front office has not forgotten that moment. It's akin to Nomar sitting on the bench [in a game in which Derek Jeter dove into the stands at Yankee Stadium in 2004]. It's the same thing. It's an at-bat that resonated very strongly in the front office." (Boston Globe)
I've mentioned before that there's a very realistic possibility Manny doesn't open 2009 in a Boston Red Sox uniform. That possibility just grew.
Discussion
26 Comments on "Manny on the outs after intentionally K'ing v. Mariano?"
#1
Posted by jvwalt, July 18, 2008 12:37 AM
Also, Manny's inflammatory comments (as reported in the Herald) won't help any. Link:
John Henry finds Manny's remarks "personally offensive." Now, Henry is a businessman, and he'll sign Manny if it makes business sense. But I'd have to say that we're having one of the worst MBM outbreaks ever, and he's hurting his chances of being back in Boston next year.
#2
Posted by Daniel Rathman, July 18, 2008 12:47 AM
This would be radical, but hear me out for a sec...
Any chance the Sox now make the afore-discussed Youk-for-Teixeira deal, and then let Manny walk and sign a lesser left-fielder? The reason this would seem to make sense is Teix is more of a cleanup-type hitter than Youk, which is what the Sox would need if they let Manny go. It would be contingent on Teix signing a long-term extension, but with $20M/year off the books, the Sox would certainly be able to pony up a monster.
Then the lineup next year becomes...
1. Ellsbury, CF
2. Pedroia, 2B
3. Ortiz, DH
4. Teixeira, 1B
5. Lowell, 3B
6. Drew, RF
7. Leftfielder
8. Varitek, C
9. Lugo/Lowrie, SS
Thoughts?
#3
Posted by Daniel Rathman, July 18, 2008 12:57 AM
Another possibility would be to wait until the offseason, let Manny walk then, and afterward throw loads of money at Teixeira. If he signs, then either move Youk to left (if he's OK with it), or trade him for an equal caliber left-fielder. If he doesn't, then reel Pat Burrell in (assuming he doesn't sign an extension with Philly).
#4
Posted by Mike Boehm, July 18, 2008 1:00 PM
I'm an Oriole fan who was watching this game. I didn't know anything about the Manny trouble with the clubhouse guy at the time. And I sat there watching his at bat thinking "Since when did Manny Ramirez not even try?
It was so out of character for him to just stand there and not at least hack at 1 of those pitches. They weren't even Rivera's best throws. I think 2 of them were belt high right over the plate. That's the kind of pitch that Manny puts into the 17th row of the bleachers 8 times out of 10.
So from a neutral 3rd party who hates both teams and who didn't know that Manny had some beef with the clubhouse personnel, I'll chime in to say that yes...that at bat looked very out of character.
#5
Posted by Tessie's Dad, July 18, 2008 1:14 PM
I've had the feeling he's been phoning it in since he hit #500.
Hey Manny- remember when the Sox put you on waivers and NOBODY bit? You were better then. Manny being Man-child isn't worth $20 million.
#6
Posted by gerry, July 18, 2008 1:24 PM
We seem to be creating a self-fulfilling prophecy about Manny walking, spinning stories to justify it, demonizing one of our best and most interesting and heroic players ever. Manny should still be productive at age 40. He may be acting like a demanding brat, but no more than the demands of brats like Santana, A-Rod, K-Rod, etc. He's our brat acting out some kind of mid-life (or end of career) crisis, which he will get over, and he seriously wants and needs some resolution.
IMO, the Sox should offer Manny his 4 year deal, but in a highly structured, incentive-laden way, which will pay according to his level of play through 2012. If Manny shows up, he gets his Manram $20M. If Manny doesn't show up, he gets paid accordingly, in a formula agreed upon by both parties. If Manny accepts the deal, we all win. Manny gets paid and the chance to cement his HOF legacy and retire his #, as we should; the Sox get 4 more .950OPS seasons, the fans get the joy of Manny being Manny. If Manny rejects the deal, he walks, and we let him walk.
If he walks Manny loses the most in terms of $$, legacy and fan support, as there are numerous ways to replace his power; and if he walks as a pariah, his life will not be as happy anywhere else.
That is an intriguing lineup, Daniel, especially so with 30+HR from Moss, Carter or Bailey in the #7 slot. However, I still like Youk and Lowell through 2010, and would rather move mountains to get Holliday, Bay, Sizemore, BJ Upton but would be content with one of our AAA sluggers being given a shot. They are the real deal. There would also be little to complain about batting Drew, Papi, Mike at #3, 4, 5.
Keep Manny and ask him to stop talking to the media.
#7
Posted by Bob, July 18, 2008 1:39 PM
This is starting to feel way too much like 2005/2006. While I used to think picking up Manny's option was the best idea, I'm starting to revise my position. I think it would be smart to keep Manny until the end of the year and then try for Teixiera in free agency. I don't know why the Red Sox didn't pull the trigger on Youk and Hansen for Tex swap, I would have done that pretty quickly because Youk will probably regress and Hansen belongs in the NL anyways. The smartest move would be trading youk for Tex and locking him in to a big money extension (there are some contracts coming off the books next year) let Manny walk and then sign a new left fielder (Jason Bay?). You'd have an absolute juggernaut lineup this season:
1. Ellsbury, CF
2. Pedroia, 2b
3. Ortiz, DH
4. Ramirez, LF
5. Teixeira, 1b
6. Lowell, 3b
7. Drew, RF
8. Lowrie, SS
9. Varitek, C
That lineup would absolutely obliterate pitching staffs, especially at Fenway, as a switch-hitter Tex also gives the team more flexibility.If you let Manny walk and sign someone like Bay, the lineup is still very strong.
#9
Posted by Bob, July 18, 2008 1:42 PM
I don't know if Moss, Carter, or Bailey is a 30 HR hitter Gerry, I like your optimism, but that seems like wishful thinking
#10
Posted by Bob, July 18, 2008 1:46 PM
If they decide to go the free agency route with Tex then Youk certainly could move to Left. He's a glue guy so he would probably be amenable to the move. If the Manny drama dies down, I wouldn't be opposed to picking up his options, seeing what Lars Anderson is going to be and then letting Manny go after 2 years. I really like Anderson, but I've also been dying to see Tex in a Boston jersey since last year, and seeing him so often here in Atlanta makes me want him on my team even more.
#11
Posted by nick, July 18, 2008 2:04 PM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Coco Crisp. He's still a terrific center fielder, is some base path speed, and not a terrible (but not exciting hitter). Keep him in center, put Ellsbury in left, Drew in right and you still have Moss as the 4th outfielder.
#12
Posted by Paul Testa, July 18, 2008 2:23 PM
It certainly is an interesting take but it is all Hearsay. I would be shocked (even if it is Manny) if he mailed it in that at bat.
Now did he look lost...absolutely, but if you give Manny a day off he expects a day and may have not been mentally prepared for the at bat. I can't imagine any person that has an ounce of competitive nature to pull a stunt like that.
Lastly let us not forget that Bob Lobel is basically Ron Burgandy.
#13
Posted by TEL, July 18, 2008 4:12 PM
I am a lifelong Yankee fan , and if you wonder why I
would post , its just to say that I watched that atbat
of course I was happy about the outcome , but to be honest , I had 2 thoughts . Wow that was strange , whats going on here . Now after , the fine , I can understand why but IF I was a red sox fan , I dont think I could condone it (Im sorry but MBM just doesnt
cut it ) Second of all these PRO athletes get paid a
ridiculous amount of money . So did he give back his pay for not even trying ?
#14
Posted by Daniel Rathman, July 18, 2008 4:46 PM
Or maybe not:
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2008/07/mannys_fine_wil.html
#15
Posted by Gerry, July 18, 2008 5:30 PM
Thanks, Daniel, sounds might we may have over reacted here. Manny is such a lightening rod. I would prefer him and Youk to Bay and Tex, especially considering the cost to get Bay and Tex.
And Bob, they haven't had much play time so far, but the numbers for our Pawtucket sluggers support 30HR. As Pawtucket #'s often reflect what will happen at Fenway, here are their stats:
Jeff Bailey, in 323AB has
#16
Posted by Gerry, July 18, 2008 5:37 PM
Sorry.
Bailey has 24HR, 64RBI, is hitting .310 with a 1.008 OPS and 1E.
Chris Carter in 359AB has 20HR, 68RBI is batting .295 with .881 and 4E.
Jon Van Every in 298AB has 24HR, 57RBI is batting .279 with a .936OPS and 0 E.
By the way, George Kottaras is also coming along well with 282AB, 17HR, 50RBI is batting .230 with a .779OPS and 2E.
On the pitching side, Charlie Zink and Dave Pauley are really tearing it up, each with 11 - 2 records, and Chris Smith continues to dominate:
Zink, in 20G has a 2.22ERA and 1.02WHIP.
Smith in 26g, 47.1IP, has a 2.28 and .97WHIP.
And Bowden just arrived in AAA and Hansack seems fully recovered from the DL.
The Sox really do, as Theo says, have internal solutions to their few problems, the first of which is getting Papi and Manny back to max production asap.
#17
Posted by James, July 18, 2008 5:47 PM
Lobel's credibilty is a joke. Have another Boilermaker Rudolph. The fine amount has already been discredited what else is he wrong about. Texieria's numbers are not even as good as Youk's this season and Youk can't play a passable LF outside of Fenway. Manny ain't worth 20 million next season but he is the best option.
#18
Posted by Mostly Running., July 18, 2008 9:27 PM
Almost game time. I can't believe how excited I am to watch a game after only a few days off. Combine that with a trip to Safeco on Tuesday and I am downright giddy.
#20
Posted by Sam, July 18, 2008 10:36 PM
I have no idea ... I was looking forward to this game too ... he his just getting beaten around right now tho
#22
Posted by Mostly Running., July 18, 2008 10:49 PM
The over priced but very good first baseman the Red Sox wisely decided to not trade Kevin Youkilis for. Am I right Alec?
#23
Posted by Steven Roth, July 18, 2008 11:03 PM
Uhh Masterson might have been a better fit for SP this season with Clay in the pen.
#24
Posted by Sean O, July 18, 2008 11:18 PM
Buchholz is not a major leaguer. Anibal got lucky with a no hitter as well, but neither is ready for prime time.
When's colon getting back?
#25
Posted by Sam, July 18, 2008 11:41 PM
Well ... let's hope Buchholz gets something figured out soon here ... Lester-esque hopefully ... and before the end of the year would be nice ... we need Clay to be at least decent ... right now something just isn't right ... he is getting nailed
#26
Posted by Bob, July 19, 2008 12:45 AM
He has a straight fastball and no command, that's what's wrong.
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