August 12, 2008
Epstein vs. Lucchino, Round 2?
The rift between the two alpha dogs in Boston's front office has been the topics of blog posts, newspaper articles, magazine features, countless hours of talk radio, a book or three, and the muse of many a "man in a gorilla suit" jokes.
From afar however, it looked like Theo Epstein and Larry Lucchino had put that all behind them and found a way to peacefully co-exist in the offices of Yawkey Way. While differences in organizational philosophy existed, Epstein a little more focused on player development and the "long view" with Lucchino a tad more focused on leveraging Boston's payroll advantage in the here and now, the mentor and pupil had carved out their areas of dominion across Red Sox Nation.
Healthy debate and differing opinions are important in any organization and having to use each others' points of view as sounding board and vetting process has been beneficial to the organization at large.
But underneath it all, are the same issues that were so adeptly characterized in Seth Mnookin's "Feeding the Monster" still tearing at the fabric of the relationship between Epstein and Lucchino?
For all that has gone on over the past two years in the front office, the relationship between the President/CEO and VP of Baseball Operations/GM seemingly wasn't a front and center issue. Or have we all just been naive?
According to Jon Heyman of Sports Illustrated, the relationship may be headed back where it did for a brief stint in 2005, a divorce.
People in high places in baseball are starting to speculate about whether this could be the last season together for the highly successful yet increasingly uncomfortable front-office tandem of GM Theo Epstein and president/CEO Larry Lucchino.
Ironically enough, the split may have been exacerbated by the discussions surrounding Manny Ramirez at the trade deadline with Larry Lucchino in a decidedly more pro-Manny camp than Epstein. Could it be that Epstein's close relationship with the players and leaders in the clubhouse (including manager Terry Francona) gave him insight into the team's soul that Lucchino didn't have? Or is Lucchino's more bottom line approach the more sound way to manage a team?
Larry Lucchino has been a critical part of not only the club's on field success over the past six seasons, but also as a critical piece to the overall ownership groups' organizational strategy and direction. That said, if what happened in 2005 taught us all anything, it taught us that Theo Epstein is truly the more favored by both the fans surrounding the team and more importantly, John Henry.
I certainly have my preferences, but I am more interested in hearing from you all. Does the potential front office drama matter to you? Who has been more integral in the two World Series Championships in their joint run at the helm? Who would you rather see in long term control of this franchise? Can the Red Sox survive the loss of either Lucchino or Epstein?
Discussion
13 Comments on "Epstein vs. Lucchino, Round 2?"
#1
Posted by Chris C, August 12, 2008 12:30 AM
Anyone headed into the game tonight? I plan to be at La Verdad a little after 5.
Go Theo!
And fortunately, there is still alot of baseball left to enjoy.
#2
Posted by Evan Brunell, August 12, 2008 12:36 AM
I have to say that Larry is far more concerned with winning immediately and keeping PR up whereas Theo is concerned for the long-run, as people here have mentioned.
Also, I heard that he wasn't too much of a fan of the 'Idiots' and he's certainly created a clubhouse culture that mirrors his personality.
Larry and Theo are on the outs, so something SHOULD change otherwise the front office will get increasingly dysfunctional. That being said, they do complement each other rather well.
Cronies would be a disaster for this organization. Remember when Theo left? The favorite to be the new GM was a Lucchino crony - JIM BEATTIE! Makes my skin crawl just to think about it. Damon would be in center, Manny in left, god knows who in right after they watch Trot break down... DPed may never have gotten a shot, Jacoby, Lester, Hansen and Moss are in Minny and Santana is here...
We also can't have a Theo crony as president. Wll be interesting to see how the off-season plays out and if Lucchino bolts to LA to join Dr. Charles.
#3
Posted by Bob, August 12, 2008 12:53 AM
I think this is really all smoke and no fire. I don't see Theo walking away again especially after getting his way with just about everything since he's been back. Lucchino might walk, but the new boss probably won't be a Theo crony, I think John Henry has enough control that he would see that it didn't happen. If Theo does walk however, expect a Lucchino crony as a GM, Larry isn't going to win all that power and then just give it up and as CEO, he gets to pick someone. VPs like Theo usually don't get to choose their bosses.
#4
Posted by Sean O, August 12, 2008 9:06 AM
Lucky vs Theo is like asking your favorite type of Hepatitis.
I'm sure it's all bull, and certainly nothing to concern ourselves with now. Let 'em collect their third ring in October, then we'll talk about it.
#5
Posted by Bob, August 12, 2008 9:19 AM
Meh. Isn't epstein still under contract for next year anyways? Personally, as much as they would probably hate to admit it, those two need each other to keep themselves in check. If Theo were left to run the team without Lucchino's presensce or if the GM was a Lucchino crony we probably wouldn't have seen the same success.
#6
Posted by Gerry, August 12, 2008 9:29 AM
They do complement each other, and have actually complimented each other, thereby acknowledging the symbiosis of this relationship. In the long run, I would go with whomever is willing to ride Boras out of town on a rail.
#7
Posted by Steven Roth, August 12, 2008 10:16 AM
We got to sweep the Rangers if we want to have any thoughts on catching the Rays, who now stand FOUR games ahead of us.
#8
Posted by MUNGHERO, August 12, 2008 10:27 AM
I always looked at Lucky as the glorified PR man and Theo as the brains behind the trade. If Lucky is 'here and now' and Theo is 'build for the long run', I'll side with Theo every time. he's creating a team that feeds itself core talent through it's farm system which results in much more of a "team". If nothing else, we get to see the same players year in and year out. it's a very anti-yankee concept and it's what I appreciate as a fan. Though it is nice to have the resources to land a long term star. Also, theo has systematically weeded out the primadonnas. It makes this team even easier to route for.
MLBtraderumors has a spreadsheet available for download detailing Theo's moves since he got the job. On the whole, a lot more plusses than negatives.
#9
Posted by Bob, August 12, 2008 11:08 AM
Roth, we definitely have to win the series, but a sweep isn't necessary. Look at the sched for the next week or two and consider the injuries that TB has, we should definitely make up some ground
#10
Posted by Sean O, August 12, 2008 11:42 AM
6 weeks to go, 45 games for them, 43 for us, and we're 4 games back. That means we have to pick up a game every 10 games or so. It would certainly be nice if we get it done in one magnificent series, but it's not like our season depends on a sweep. And, last I checked, we're still on tops in the WC race (though hopefully the Twins will sweep the Yanks to keep it close).
If it were Sept 12th and we were behind by 4 I'd say we'd need a sweep. There is, unfortunately, a lot of baseball left.
#11
Posted by Nate, August 12, 2008 1:34 PM
Much ado about nothing. I guess the Manny trade wasn't enough to keep the media sated for more than a couple of weeks. There's occasional dischord in every business. The Sox are the most successful team in MLB these past 5 years, and a little tiff between Theo and Larry isn't going to make anyone forget that.
#13
Posted by JJ, August 13, 2008 12:54 AM
I don't think Lucchino's going anywhere, and certainly not to the Dodgers. I am, however, less confident about Theo. His contract (unless they've done something in secret) is up at the end of this season. He's said repeatedly that he's not in this for the long haul because he wants to settle down and raise a family. He's now married and has an 8-month-old son. He lives in a fishbowl in Boston, which he has admitted disliking, and nothing he can do aside from quitting will ever change that. He has 6 winning seasons, 4 playoff appearances, and 2 rings, and the "$100 million player development machine" seems fully operational; what's left for him to do here? If he has a frosty relationship with Lucchino, that's just another potentially problematic factor.
I'm not saying Theo won't be here in 2009 (assuming I have his current contract status right in the first place). He won't have as good a situation with payroll and ownership anywhere else in the league, and he has to know that. But I don't think it's a slam dunk at all.
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