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Jarrod Washburn? Why Not?
The primary Yankee related trade rumor currently making the rounds among baseball fans is one that would bring Jarrod Washburn to New York. The Yankees would be required to take Jose Vidro as well, while mercifully ending the Kei Igawa experiment by sending him to Seattle along with a low level prospect. According to many sources, the ball is in the Yankees court on this one, as Seattle is more than willing to make this deal as is, as it would save them a bit more than 7 million dollars. Should Brian Cashman bite?
I really think this is a no lose situation for the Yankees, and they should make the deal. Yes, Vidro is a waste of air. However, he can be designated for assignment, as he really brings nothing worthwhile to the table. Furthermore, getting rid of Igawa can only be a positive move for a franchise that has long been unwilling to accept their own mistakes. Let him be a AAA warrior for Tacoma rather than Scranton.
The key to the deal is Washburn. While it is true that his numbers are down across the board, he has been much better for the last two months, posting a 2.65 ERA over his last 8 starts. He has always pitched well in Yankee Stadium, and has been good in TB and Boston as well. Why not trade for a hot lefty pitcher who pitches well in your ballpark? Furthermore, he would be replacing Sidney Ponson or Darrell Rasner, two pitchers who are without a doubt worse than Washburn. Rasner started nicely, but he has been smacked around with regularity since his first four starts. In regard to Sir Sidney, the only number higher than his WHIP is his weight, which does not bode well for continued good performance.
The key to this situation is that it is a low risk, high reward move that would fill a hole without using resources that may be needed in other deals. The team has no idea if they can count on CM Wang, Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy, or (I can’t believe I am even mentioning him) Carl Pavano to return and contribute before the end of the season. Washburn would slot into the back of the rotation for the remainder of the year, and the Yankees could decide what to do with him in terms of next season based on his performance. If he continues to pitch the way he has since early June, not a bad bet in a ballpark built for lefties, he could be a big part of the Yankees run for a playoff spot. What is there to lose?
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58 Responses to “Jarrod Washburn? Why Not?”
July 24th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
i just read the M’s aren’t sold on Igawa and now talks could head towards Gardner/Cabrera ground…
July 24th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
I think the only way that this deal looks good is that Igawa is part of it. Washburn may be better than Ponson, but he is league average at best, something one of the McCutchen, Karstens and Aceves trio could very well be. The only advantage right now is that Washburn is a known comodity.
Washburn would create a logjam in the rotation. With Joba, Moose and Pettite, plus Wang, Hughes and IPK when healthy, and add Horne into the mix for next year. This could set up a trade for an OF bat, when some of this starters become too much.
And last, giving Igawa ans his posting fee, plus taking Washburn and Vidro´s contract, means the team basically paid $57 Million for three years consisting in: 1 year when Igawa was a bust, one year of AAA Igawa and 1 year of a overrated Washburn, plus the rental for Vidro.
July 24th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
Washburn is a better option that Rasner. You’d have a rotation of Moose/Chamberlain/Pettitte/Ponson/Washburn, with Wang take the place of Ponson or Washburn come September. That gives you a true long relief guy come playoff time.
Next year is next year. The place the Yanks are in, you need to think now as well. Pitching is a strength but can easily become a weakness as Rasner has not impressed too much. I like what Eiland has done with Ponson, but Rasner is a AAAA pitcher…He’s had an ERA over 6 the past two months. Regardless, next year is still 1/2 a year away, so lets not worry about that. I’d rather have more than enough pitching than not enough…
July 24th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
Exactly, Koch. I thought we had “too much pitching” coming into this season, and here we are with Sidney pitching a big game against Boston. You can never have enough, these things tend to work out.
July 24th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
What’s to lose? Well, let’s examine that.
1. $7 million. They don’t save 7 million, they lose it on Washburn’s salary minus Igawa’s.
2. Washburn isn’t a half-season rental, he’s signed through next season. And he’s going to want an extension if he is to waive his no-trade clause.
3. Washburn, flat out, has terrible numbers. He’s awful. He goes 5 + innings and gives up 2 runs the other night and all of a sudden he’s a Red Sox killer? He may be pitching well of late, but he WILL revert back to his season averages, and when he does, we’ll be stuck with him.
4. Yes, Vidro can be DFA’d, but until then we’ll have to put him somewhere to find out what he can do. That leaves us with: Betemit, Giambi, Sexson, Vidro, and (possibly) Posada at 1B/DH. Throw Damon in as a DH once a week as well.
This would only add to the list of bad moves made by the Yankees front office that I hope they are moving away from.
I’d like to see Nady or Bay (Nady probably cheaper) and any catcher other than Lo Duca. I honestly don’t know what to do about the pitching. If Washburn was in the final year, of his contract….it might be considered.
July 24th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
1) Let’s be honest, the 7 million is not really relevant. If the Yankees feel they need a starter, that is not going to stop them.
2) If he wants an extension, you dont make the move, otherwise, go for it.
3)Awful is a strong word. He is above league average for his career, and mathematically he is more likely to revert back to his career averages, not his season averages, as the season average is a less representative sample. He has pitched well in NY and Boston for his career, not just this season.
4) Vidro can play for a week, then be DFA’d if they dont like what they see. Not a big deal.
July 24th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
have been for this trade, from the beginning.
however, am not moving Gardner, for washburn.
July 24th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
The 7M is sunk anyhow whether is Igawa or Washburn…. Which would have a better impact/be spent better in the MLB.. Igawa vs. Washburn then Washburn has better number. Plus he has great numbers at Yankee Stadium, where 1/2 of his remaining starts would be. On a poor team he’s pitched poor…
July 24th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
Just wondering, what would the Mariners want with Kei Igawa? I know that Washburn isn’t exactly Johan Santana, but he’s always been a solid middle of the rotation starter, in fact he was arguably the ace of a championship team (2002 Angels) and he’s definitely an upgrade over Ponson/Rasner (who have no business on a team looking for a championship), but I dont know why the Mariners would give him up for nothing. Kei Igawa has no upside and he’s never gotten major league hitters out. If I was the Mariners and that was the best that I could do I would just hold on to Washburn, at least he has a proven track record. Of course the Mariners are poorly run so maybe they will take a worthless player like Igawa.
July 24th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
Salary dump…They are rebuilding and thinking could be if he’s on the west coast, he might be better off. Also, he could think about walking from the MLB and returning to Japan as well..
July 24th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
Look they don’t need pitching. Now that Posada is injured Rasner can now pitch to Moeller. Rasner is like 4-1 with a ERA around 3.00 (a little above). The only problem I got with this trade is that he might want an extension. Another is the M’s aren’t goin to want Igawa. I dont by that. honestly who wants the guy. They want Gardner or Melky which I say no way. I think if anything eat up his salary and change him with Ponson but I don’t see the point.
July 24th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Washburn, after a miserable start, has been quite good. In his last 10 games, he’s given up two runs or less eight times. He’ll be an asset down the stretch. I doubt if the amount of money involved will be a factor in the decision or should it be for the Yankees.
July 24th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
Also w/ Washburn signed for 09, its harder to bring back Mussina. I also have trouble swallowing vidro, he’s the exact type of player the yankees need to avoid.
July 24th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
The point is being missed. Its a salary dump… THe M’s are trying to absolve themselves of salary. Yes, Igawa is still owed 9.4M, but that’s over 3 years…. Washburn is set for 12M over the next too… If the Yanks get Vidro, they’d probably send down an outfielder, and then release VIdro…He’s not going to sit on the roster…
July 24th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
They want Cabrera? Do the deal before they sober up - addition by subtraction.
July 24th, 2008 at 10:04 pm
The Yankees are fully cognizant that Jarrod Washburn has a full no-trade clause, but they don’t intend to add any financial enticements to convince him to waive it. “If he wants to come here, great,” said one club official. “If he wants to stay in Seattle, we have other options.”
That’s the stuff that says Cashman is in charge!!!
July 25th, 2008 at 12:59 am
The only way I’d make that deal is if Igawa is part of it, no important prospect is involved and there’s no extention to Washburn.
IPK added to this discussion with his near no hitter. He could be a big part of this years rotation. And McCutchen, Karstens and Aceves could hold the other spot for Hughes or Wang for a month. That’s why I think the team will not rush to make the deal or accept other conditions.
July 25th, 2008 at 5:34 am
I would do the deal for Igawa. I’m not crazy about picking up the second year, but we can always trade him next year or bullpen him if necessary. No way I’d include Melky, tjo. I think that many people forget that he’s only 23. He was actually 10% better than an average replacement player (VORP) last year. He project to be a 20% guy by 2011. I’m frustrated by his season, too, but he’s not someone you just give away.
July 25th, 2008 at 7:33 am
No way we part with Melky for this kind of deal; he hasn’t looked good except for some short stretches this year, but I remember other times last year he helped carry the club.
Washburn would be a good pick up. I have always liked him and think on a good ballclub, you’ll see a resurgence in his career. He has always been tough against the Yanks, and I can see him coming up big in big spots.
Looking at Vidro’s numbers, aside from this year, he’s always been solid offensively. However, since he really has no position anymore, it’s hard to justify a place on the Yanks’ roster with Betemit there.
July 25th, 2008 at 7:43 am
But with Gardner and Jackson available for the future, Melky is expendable…
July 25th, 2008 at 7:58 am
Vidro is a deal-breaker for me. He’s not just useless - he’s worse than useless. He’s a cancer… not in the clubhouse - on the field.
Washburn… eh. He’s just sort of mediocre. There are some reasons to think he might be useful (lefty, good career rates in the AL East parks). But then again, his overall performance has been poor, he’s signed for another year, and IPK just missed a (7-inning) no-no in AAA by one out. There is a real chance that IPK > Washburn.
Of course, we might need both, because Rasner AND Ponson could turn into pumpkins at any time.
July 25th, 2008 at 8:00 am
Koch - sure Melky is expendable, but you don’t expend him on Jarrod Washburn. Yuck.
You take Washburn from the Mariners in a salary dump, ONLY. You do not give up any real talent, and as frustrating as Melky has been, he has some.
July 25th, 2008 at 8:35 am
Why not? Because it seems the only team he can beat consistantly is the Yanks.
July 25th, 2008 at 10:14 am
I’d rather make a move for the apprentley availible Derek Lowe. The Dodgers like Alberto Gonzalez as a SS option. maybe a Gonzo, Ohlendorf (who we know Torre likes) and a C prospect would get it done. Thats more than they’d get when he walks at the end of the year. D-Lowe, while old, is certainly an upgrade over Rasner, and may get a bump from switching leagues
July 25th, 2008 at 10:15 am
SOSS, I make that move in a heartbeat, but I think the Dodgers would need one real prospect to get it done.
July 25th, 2008 at 10:21 am
Koch- I dont agree with you about parting with Melky but not Gardner. Personally I like both of them but I see Melky as being a better player than Gardner. I think AJAX is going to be one of our outfielders of the future. It still remains to be seen with Jose Tabata…he is still young so I think it’s a little early to worry about it now. But I see Melky being more a part of our future than Gardner. I think Melky could develop a little more power while I dont see Gardner developing any. I know neither one of them are power hitters but I’d at least like to see that there is some power there. Gardner only seems capable of hitting singles. The problem with that is pitchers can be aggressive with him and go right after him, without fear of making a mistake and having him punish that mistake. Lets see how both do
July 25th, 2008 at 10:22 am
the dodgers would want serious talent for Lowe. Don’t forget he’s a type A FA, so the Dodgers will get 2 1st rounders if he leaves in the offseason. No way Gonzo and Ohly will do it. They’ll ask for IPK or someone like Betances or Heredia
July 25th, 2008 at 10:37 am
It appears Ponson may be the odd man out. According to the Yankees website, he has been pulled from the Sunday start against Boston. Rasner is still pitching against Baltimore on Monday. Maybe something is up? Even though Rasner’s ERA is up (due to some strange official scoring, runs scoring after an error and 2 outs), he has pitched much better than Ponson, and both Girardi and Cashman like his grind through it approach.
July 25th, 2008 at 10:46 am
That is odd, it does say “to be announced” for Sunday night’s starter.
July 25th, 2008 at 10:47 am
Type A’s yeild a first round (top 15 protected) and a sandwhich pick between rounds 1 and 2. But the Dodgers may want more, you’re right. Since it would leave a hole in their rotation. I’d sweaten the pot with some other prospects. But not with IPK or the other guys you mentioned. I actually think it’d be a good trade for the Dodgers. They really need a SS, and Gonzo is great defensively, cheap, and under control for several more years. Russ is a MLB ready power arm who would immediately be plugged into their bullpen. Plus whoever else is in the deal along with the money they save on Lowe’s contract.
July 25th, 2008 at 11:28 am
Mark: Gardner had 10 doubles and 11 triples in 80 AAA games this year. Over 160 games, that gives him a very respectable 42. He typically takes some time to adjust to each level so we probably won’t see his pop until next year but he’s not just a singles hitter.
July 25th, 2008 at 11:47 am
Yes, gardner has not hit yet at the major level, however i don’t think that will be for long. I see him as being capable player once he adjusts. Remember Melky’s first games? He might not be a power guy, but we got a few of them, so what he lacks in power he makes up in speed and OBP. He gets on, moves to second, Jeter gets him to third and Abreu or the 3rd hitter (Cano eventually i believe) gets him in… THat’s a great top of the order… Cabrera is a good player and i’d keep him but choosing between the two, I’d keep Gardner over Cabrera..
July 25th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
I think a guy like Gardner is invaluable on this team, as long as he is hitting a little bit. The speed, bunting, taking pitches, range in the OF, the Yankees have had too few of these guys over the past 5-7 years. When he gets on base, you feel like the offense is clicking.
July 25th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/07/dodgers-inter-1.html
don’t know how legitimate it is…
July 25th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
I would trade Cano only for a good young stud pitcher from whatever team would want to give one up these days. Yanks don’t need Kemp now or in the future because they AJax and Tabata seasoning in the minors. The Yanks can also re-sign Abreu for 2 years.
July 25th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
Cano - Not going to happen!!
July 25th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
If you really want to shoot for all the marbles I say find out what it takes to get AJ Burnett from the Jays…
It is a risk due to his arm woes however he is healthy and over a closing 2 month stretch he has the stuff to be as dominant as anyone…the key is that he stay healthy.
I cannot imagine that he would be overly costly to obtain. The Jays want out of the deal in that after this year the contract gives Burnett two years of a player option to renew at I believe $15M per…
With his history, and the fact that Toronto may need to tear it down at a time when they thought they would be competing for a title, I say ask how much….you may be plesantly surprised.
July 25th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
How about Cano, Kennedy, a 3rd player for Roy Halladay?
July 25th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
Yes, and while we trade Cano lets see if we can sign Tony Womack to play Second!!! They just lost Posada so lets through a defensive guy in at 2B and take more production out of the offense. Sure Gonzalez can play second, but you lose so much offense needed from Cano. Cano will be a great player, there is no need to be trading him, it will never happen… The Washburn deal is designed to bring a quality back of the order guy to a hurting rotation performing about expectations. Rasner has over 6 ERA since June 1… that’s not going to get you in the playoffs. Washburn pitches exptremely well at Yankee Stadium sporting a 2.84 ERA in 12 career starts (70 innings)… something to consider.
The holes in this team are right handed power hitters and starting pitchers. Halladay is not the type of pitcher need as you have moose/pettitte/joba at the front of the rotation. Back of the rotation is all that is needed, so lets stop being unrealistic and shipping Cano out of here without a real backup option!!! It’s not going to happen!
July 25th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Jose’ I agree with you 100% Burnett is the only guy out there who could carry a team to a title. Maybe unlikely, but if this guy is hot in october you’d have a real shot. I doubt Toronto will trade him to us, but I’d definately make Ricardi a legitimate offer.
July 25th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Why on Earth would anyone want to trade Cano???
July 25th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
We don’t NEED somebody to carry this team to a title. We need a body that can give proven results. Rasner is not that guy. Ponson? I don’t know if i trust that 1.72 WHIP… At the back of the end at the end of the day, Washburn, for the price, is the only option that makes sense…
July 25th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
Koch I somewhat disagree. You need power pitching in october. Joba fits the bill. But without Wang its tough for me to see this team winning 3 playoff rounds with this fineese staff. Hitters generally have slow bats in october, which is why I think having Burnett throwing gas behind Joba in the playoff rotation would make this team very formidable. Then again, AJ could stub his tow and be out for the rest of the year. Soft tossers like Mussina and Washburn can be effective, but its too much to expect them to put up zero’s for 7 innings with a 86MPH fastball.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
Wang will be back in October however and Pettitte is a warrior. Moose will fill out the rotation. That’s quality 4 guys that can pitch. Burrnett would cost too much in prospects
FYI..
3:09pm: Jayson Stark says the Yankees view Washburn as a salary dump, and won’t include even low-level prospects unless the Mariners eat money or take Igawa.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
Look, they Yankees will not through quality prospects at a guy unless its worthwhile for them… None of the options available are worth that task… So they do the next best thing, bargin shop. Washburn, being considered a salary dump, would be a bargin similar to the Abreu/Lidle deal, and they won’t be giving away any good prospect…Same goes for other options they consider. You won’t see them ship Melky or Gardner or any of the top name guys…
July 25th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Also I’d rather have Washburn flop and just spend cash than trade away prospects a la Gagne for the Sox last year and have Burnett be a huge flop…
July 25th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Some Washburn stats from the last 3 years:
26-37, 4.08 ERA, 558 IP, 311 SO.
Opponents line of .270 / .326 / .430 / .756
He´s a better pitcher in the first half: 3.85 pre All Star Game, 4.42 after.
He´s not a good pitcher against Boston:
0-2 5.32 ERA, 23.2 IP, .261 Avg
But he´s good against Tampa:
3-2, 1.78 ERA, 30.1 IP, .241 Avg
And for fun, against the Yankees:
3-4, 2.28 ERA, 47.1 IP, .246 Avg
At te Stadium:
1-3, 2.49 ERA, 25.1 IP, .277 Avg.
This numbers are a bit decieving, since 4 runs are unearned. He has allowed almost 4 runs / 9 innings pitched at the Stadium. That goes more in line with his .277 Avg against and 4 HR he has allowed, and his carreer numbers.
July 25th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/5995/career_by_all_pitching_splits.html
That link is career stats. 4.63 ERA career against Boston in 12 starts. 3.60 ERA at Fenway in 5 starts. 2.84 ERA at Yankee Stadium in 12 starts.
Ponson career Stats: 6.63 ERA career against Boston in 20 starts. 7.16 ERA in 9 starts at Fenway. 4.95 ERA in 19 games, 16 starts, at Yankee Stadium.
Rasner career Stats: 10.80 ERA career against Boston in 1 career start. 3.71 ERA in 11 career starts at Yankee Stadium. He’s never pitched at Fenway Park.
There’s your career comparisons, so who would you rather trust? Washburn has the better stats when compared to the guys he’d be replacing in the rotation…
July 25th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
“How about Cano, Kennedy, a 3rd player for Roy Halladay?”
Maybe if that 3rd player is Joba.
July 25th, 2008 at 6:05 pm
How bout we just give them the farm for Burnett, and for the future, sign over priced 35-40 year old veterans who are past their production for obscene piles of money?
July 25th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
The Yankees are also monitoring Winn who’s hitting .277 this year… He’s considered a salary dump as well.. Switching hitting outfielder.. thoughts?
July 25th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
Playoff starting pitchers on this staff are Pettitte and Chamberlain…To say the Yankees could not use another dominant starter is absurd…
What you saw tonight between Beckett and Joba is playoff caliber pitching…
ALL of Joba’a K’s were on breaking balls, all nine! Why? Because as a hitter when you face 96-98 MPH you need to be geared up to have any shot to catch up to it… if a guy throws the breaking ball for strikes you have no shot. On the other hand when you face 88-90 MPH you have time to react and adjust.
In the playoffs it is not that bats slow down it is that you face the 1 and 2 guys in a rotation 4 times…no chance to fatten up your stats against the 4 and 5 guys…
The Yankees need another front line starter, back of the rotation guys don’t pitch in the playoffs.
So if you are going to go get another starter make it a stud, like Burnett…if you aspire to championships.
If the goal is merely the Wild Card and bowing out in the ALDS then go get Washburn…
July 26th, 2008 at 12:17 am
Well I guess the acquistion of Nady and Marte puts the starting pitcher question mute. With Nady in the lineup its awsome, Rasner should be able to keep them in the games when he pitches and the bullpen will be solid behind him. The Tampa trust did great job, giving up practically nothing.
July 26th, 2008 at 6:37 am
jose b,
Back of the end rotation guys don’t pitch in the playoffs??? Every team has 5 starters on their staff and not all 5 are dominate aces…4 of them are starters in the playoffs. Burnett is good but he’s an enigma and the risk/reward scenario is not worth the chances… You have said we have a 1 and 2 so now we need a 3 and 4. Moose is one of those two, so why do we need Burnett??? You don’t need to win all 4 games you need pitchers to give you innings so your offense can produce against your opponents #4!!! IF you have 2 quality starters, chances are in a 7 game series you’ll win the 4 games… It never comes down to who yoru 3 and 4 starters are that will decide your playoff fate!!!
July 26th, 2008 at 6:38 am
Bill… They are not done yet. There are still 5 days until the deadline and talks are still ongoing about adding a back end pitcher…Someone who won’t cost much talent wise only cash…
July 26th, 2008 at 6:44 am
Washburn 4-9 4.75ERA 110IP .298 OBA
Burnnett 11-9 4.73ER 139IP .261 OBA
If i have to give up Hughes and Kennedy for Burnnett to get the same production for a Burnnett, I’d say ‘no go’…. Find that Chacon in the rough!!
July 27th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
I HATE Washburn. It seems like everyone is only looking at 2002. SIX years ago. 18-6, then tattooed in the WS. Two years later, he was roughed up in Game 1 of the ALDS, then in Game 3 came out of the bullpen to serve up a Series ending walkoff to Big Papi.
He is 97-95 in his career entering Sunday July 27th. Take away the 18-6 2002 season, and that leaves you with a guy who is 79-89 otherwise, and who—-outside of 2002—has never won more than 11 in a season. For this you want to increase the payroll by $7 million? Oh…I forgot. It’s not YOUR money. It’s the Yankees, so you feel free to spend as much as you want.
Washburn is 34 next month. Outside of 2002, nothing to brag about. The temptation to make the deal just to dump Igawa is strong. But I do not like it.
Once again, it is getting a NAME and not looking at results. Yes, Washburn has done well lately. But let’s not forget the 6.99 ERA the guy was carrying on the morning of May 22nd.
July 27th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
One more thing. Washburn, since 2005, and entering Sunday is 22-38. I don’t know about you, but I do NOT take on an extra $7 million for a guy 22-38 over the last 2 2/3 years.
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