Keep criticizing Ferry but his patience will pay off in the end. He knows it; why do you think he's smiling? (photogmarc/flickr)
Patience Is A Virtue Ferry Has - And One Fans Lack
Taking a page out of my good friend St. Augustine’s book, I want to post a noble quote about patience from him:
“Patience is the companion of wisdom.”
What does that have to do with Ferry? A lot. Right now, fans make it seem like he’s sitting on his hands doing nothing while other teams are getting better, but that is far from the case. Ferry isn’t being lazy - he’s being patient. Two completely different things and two things that separate a good GM from a bad GM.
Listen, I know that Cleveland sports fans don’t have a lot of patience and that they want to win right NOW. I’m the same way! I’m no different from most other fans. I want to win so badly just like the rest of them. But the fact of the matter is that good things come to those who wait. I know we can’t afford to wait much longer with LeBron James possibly opting out in two years, but that doesn’t make it justified to make quick, stupid moves.
It seems like no matter what Ferry does, he always gets raked over the coles. If he waits and is patient, he’s considered to be lazy, sitting on his hands and content with the team. But if he goes out and makes a quick move, he made the move too quick and it was the wrong player to go after. It just never seems like he can win. And whether his critics want to believe it or not, he’s making the correct decision by playing the waiting game.
Free agency is a taking place right now and is where GM’s are notorious for overpaying players. Notorious. And it usually happens within the first week of free agency when teams rush to get guys and overpay for them because they’re afraid they won’t come to their team or they’re afraid another team will post a higher a bid for them. While all the other GM’s that are doing that, Ferry is sitting back and laughing at them. Laughing at the big contracts that these average players are getting. Mickael Pietrus 4-years, 25 million. James Jones 5-years, 23 million. DeSagna Diop 5-years, 31 million. Beno Udrih 5-years, 26 million. The list goes on and on. You mean you want Ferry to get involved with that again? Make a quick move and overpay for guys like Larry Hughes, Damon Jones and Donyell Marshall? Just so we can say we made a move? Yeah right.
While everybody is overpaying for players and occupying their MLE’s with average, middle-of-the-road players, Ferry is sitting back and letting his competition weed themselves out instead of him having to do it. He’s letting them tie up their assets while he has open and ready to pounce.
It seems like Cav fans (some, not all) have gotten absolutely out of control within this past week with the recent signings of big name players like Baron Davis, Corey Maggette, Elton Brand, etc. Whenever I turn on a local T.V. show like Bruce Drennan (I know, not the best place for Cavs news), it always seems like people are saying “oh, Ferry’s terrible. Why didn’t he get Brand?” or “I’ve given up all hope in Ferry. He’s letting guys like Baron Davis get by.” It just absolutely astounds me the stupidity level that people have. Maybe it’s ignorance and I’m confusing it for stupidity, but it just boggles my mind. It’s like people think that Davis, Maggette, Brand, etc., will come here no matter what. Because we’re Cleveland and we have LeBron James, they will come here and if they don’t then it’s all Ferry’s fault. And when it’s Ferry’s fault, it’s because he’s a terrible GM. And when they find out it’s because we don’t have the money, it’s because of Ferry too. All erroneous statements that just bother me because of how misinformed people are.
Getting away from my semi-rant–Ferry is playing it real smart in free agency right now, whether you guys realize it or not. Sure we’ve missed out on guys like Maggette, Brand, Davis, etc., but there are still real good players out there and very much available. The thing is that we’re going to face less competition in getting those guys because we’ve waited for teams to tie up cap space and then they won’t have the ability to compete for players that we want.
Say we put in a bid for (random player) Mickael Pietrus, at the beginning of free agency. At that point in time, we’re going to be competing for his services with a ton of different teams and all those teams are probably going to try to outbid us for our services. Ferry is going to be faced with a lot more competition, it’s a fact. Now say Pietrus is still unsigned. Now once the dust has settled, a lot of the major players (teams) for his services have weeded themselves out because they’ve gone different routes. Now Ferry is left with maybe a few teams bidding for his services instead of the two handfuls he had to deal with at the beginning of free agency. He’s now not forced into overpaying for the guy because he knows some of the teams that are willing to throw money at him are on the shelf and he now only has a bid versus a few teams that don’t have a ton of money. Kind of get what I’m saying? It’s kind of hard for me to put it into words, but hopefully you guys understand.
Just one more thing to add to that point… A lot of the teams that are willing to throw money around and a lot of the teams that have cap space, usually use most of it up within the first week or so. So anytime after that, you’re looking at a lot less competition, especially if you still have your MLE and are willing to spend. Your team will look a lot more attractive, especially if you’re title contender because there aren’t many (if any) teams that can offer more money that you.
With that said, people seem to forget that there are some real quality players still out there. Guys like Josh Childress, Sasha Vujacic, Nenad Krstic, Kelenna Azubuike, J.R. Smith, Dorell Wright, Bostjan Nachbar, James Posey, etc. With a lot more dominoes yet to come (Okafor, Smith, etc.), not a lot of those players are going to be signed within the next two days. Which means that we’re only going to be in better positions as we continue to wait. Let me give you a couple of examples.
Say the Hawks re-sign Josh Smith to a humongous new deal because they’re forced to match an offer by the Clippers. Now how likely is it that Childress will re-sign with them? Now that Ferry has waited, he has probably ruled out his potentially biggest bidder (the Hawks) with them committing so much money to Smith. It just increases your chances greatly to get the guy you want because you waited.
Or say the Lakers re-sign Ronny Turiaf to a new deal because they’re forced to match an offer by the Warriors. Since that deal is rumored to be front-loaded and the Lakers are already over the luxury, how likely is it that the Lakers match a big deal for Vujacic?
Not only that but there won’t be nearly as many teams that can offer those players the type of contracts. I mean I’m pretty sure around 7 teams already have pretty much ruled themselves out of the bidding for any player above 1-2 million dollars per year because of they’re signings thus far. That’s not even counting the teams that won’t spend their MLE because of fear of the luxury tax (Denver, Phoenix, Boston, Houston, Los Angeles, Portland, etc.). That number will only go up in the coming days once guys like Smith, Okafor, Biedrins, Ellis, etc., sign. Before you know it you’ll be left with only a few teams who want and are willing to spend the MLE, with a lot of good players left on the market.
Now I’m not saying that Ferry should do nothing for the rest of free agency, but I’m saying being patient right now is being real smart and it’s something that fans need to realize.
As far as trades go, Ferry is going to have to be patient there too. While the Cavs have the assets to make a move, those assets aren’t going to be too attractive right now. The Cavs have the type of assets that would attract a re-building team. Sure the Cavs have Anderson Varejao but is he really going to bring us something back that we desperately need? Simply, no. The bulk of our trade assets are expiring contracts: Eric Snow, Damon Jones, Wally Szczerbiak, Joe Smith, which are things that aren’t going to attract a lot of teams at this point in time. Yeah we have guys like Sasha Pavlovic and Anderson Varejao but those guys aren’t going to bring back the type of players we want and we need. They might bring back something, but not the type of players we’re looking for. Those expirings are the key. The reason I say they won’t be attractive now is because no team is going to say they’re going to re-build in the off-season. Every team thinks they can be competitive next year, during the off-season, and are going into next season with high hopes. No team is going to throw the towel in from the get-go, throw away their star along with millions of dollars of money (a big reason). The NBA is a business and a full rebuild mode for any NBA team would mean reduced ticket sales, reduced purchasing of merchandise, etc. The teams aren’t going to want to lose money for the whole year. Once we see teams start dropping out of contention, during the season, and teams starting to sort themselves out, then we’ll be in more of a territory to trade those expiring contracts. Don’t get me wrong, these contracts will interest people now but they will quadruple in value come the trade deadline.
That’s why Ferry may elect to hold on to them until the trade deadline or some time around there. It’s not being lazy or sitting on his hands, it’s being patient and being smart. It’s basically like taking money out of the bank a few months after you put it in, instead of letting it sit in there for a year. Yeah you might get a little extra interest, you’ll feel good about getting some cash in your hand and getting something out of it. But you’ll pass up an opportunity to let it sit there a lot longer and collect even more interest and you’ll likely get a much bigger amount in return. That’s what Ferry will probably do and it makes a whole lot of sense when you look at it.
Look, I’m no Ferry lover by any stretch of the imagination but making stupid, quick moves is not the answer to this franchise. I know we want him to make a move but making a quick move isn’t always the answer. Good things come to those who wait and are patient. Fans need to realize that and see the approach that Ferry is taking, rather than criticizing him for silly reasons and for their own impatience.
“Patience can’t be acquired overnight. It is just like building up a muscle. Every day you need to work on it.”
~ Eknath Easwaran
Ferry has patience and it’s showing; it’s some of the fans that need to start working on their patience. Now.
Quick Notes
–> Wayne Simien decided to spur the Cavs summer league and go to the Atlanta Hawks summer camp. The replacement for him: former St. Edward Eagle and former North Carolina Tar Heel, Jawad Williams. Fore more info on Jawad, check out the plain dealer’s article.
–> For those of you who don’t own NBATV or just would rather watch it online, you will be able to watch all of the Cavs summer league games via NBA Broadband. All you have to do is go to the NBA’s Las Vegas Summer League home page (here). From there all you need to do is go to the left hand side of the page and look at the box scores. Look for the Cavs box score (when they play) and click “watch”, right below the box score. You’ll probably need to register for access to watch the games but as long as you do, you should be able to watch all of the Cavs Summer League games for free.
This entry was posted
on Saturday, July 12th, 2008 at 9:29 pm and is filed under Corey Maggette, Las Vegas Summer League, Josh Smith, Josh Childress, Sasha Vujacic, Wally Szczerbiak, Beno Udrih, Damon Jones, Danny Ferry, James Posey, Dorell Wright, Keleena Azubuike, Portland Blazers, Anderson Varejap, Bruce Drennan, DeSagna Diop, Nenad Krstic, Wayne Simien, Jawad Williams, Donyell Marshall, James Jones, Los Angeles Lakers, Phoenix Suns, LeBron James, Denver Nuggets, Houston Rockets, Emeka Okafor, Atlanta Hawks, Boston Celtics, Elton Brand, Ronny Turiaf, Baron Davis, Bostjan Nachbar, Mickael Pietrus, Joe Smith, J.R. Smith, Eric Snow, Larry Hughes, Sasha Pavlovic, Cavaliers.
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44 Responses to “Patience Is A Virtue Ferry Has - And One Fans Lack”
July 13th, 2008 at 12:26 am
Pretty solid…and yes, J.R. Smith is still available. I’m willing to bet the mortgage that he becomes a 16 ppg scorer if he gets 25+ minutes a night in Cleveland. And that’s being generous. Dude’s everything the Cavs need in a two-guard.
July 13th, 2008 at 6:37 am
is Okafor already a free agent?.. if he i.. then I rahte go with him.. he will surely boost cavs rebounding at defense..
July 13th, 2008 at 6:38 am
i like JR smith alot talent-wise. hes a scorer and a shooter. his only issue is a character thing (supposedly), but it might not be bad for this cavs team to get a guy with a little edge to him. i think they can use it.
July 13th, 2008 at 8:10 am
Excellent post. Pretty much sums up what I’ve been trying to tell people. The backlash when Elton Brand signed with Philly was astounding to me. There was no possibility….at all…..for Ferry to get Brand. But yet everyone started freaking out and screaming that Ferry had dropped the ball. It’s INSANE. I’m on board with Amar in that JR Smith would be ideal and a perfect fit in Cleveland, and I still say Monta Ellis would be perfect as well. The unfortunate thing is, I don’t think the Cavaliers have the fire power to land either one. They lack the assets for a sign and trade, and they lack the cap space to offer an un-matchable contract. If I were a betting man, I’d put my money on the Cavs not making any moves in the off season. Ferry knows he’s going to get the best value for his assets come closer to trade deadline season. I hope I’m wrong, though. I’d love to see JR Smith playing in the wine and gold next year.
July 13th, 2008 at 8:20 am
JR Smith could be a real possibility… Denver is up against the luxury tax and it looks like they’re trying to avoid it at all costs by selling their first round pick, not offering free agents anything other than the minimum and not being too aggressive in FA…
If you offer Smith a nice sized deal, I have to believe that they’d be very weary of matching…
I certainly would not mind him one bit… Getting a guy that young to put around LeBron would be nice…Not to mention one of LeBron’s buddies…
@ kurabo
Okafor is looking for 10+ million, we can’t offer that type of money… We could do a S&T but we have nothing the Bobcats would want in return for him…
@ RockKing
Thanks…
I disagree with both arguments…
We have the pieces for a S&T, it just depends on what player we’re talking about and what situation the team is in…
If it’s a star player on a team that doesn’t want to give up the player (Ellis), then yes I agree..
But if it’s star player, who wants out, then I think we have a chance…
And in Smith’s case, we have a chance…
As far as cap room, it’s no obstacle for Gilbert… He’s given Ferry the green light and according to a reliable source on a message board, he’s even willing to go to 100 million in total salaries, if that’s what it takes to win a ’ship…
I think they’ll make some moves in free agency, but it’ll be awhile… Like I said, I think he’s waiting for the dust to settle, especially with guys like Okafor, Smith, etc.
July 13th, 2008 at 10:14 am
The thing about Smith is that if we tried to sign him to an outright offer sheet, it would be around the midlevel exception. Would Denver STILL be weary of matching if it’s just for the MLE? If so, I think working out a sign-and-trade involving Pavlovic and a future second-rounder could be something worth looking into.
You can say all you want about Ferry’s patience being a virtue, and it might be, but J.R. Smith fits this team like a glove and it won’t be that hard to get him. The guy is still on the market, for crying out loud!
July 13th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Not knit-picking but its rake over the coals
July 13th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
I liked the article. I don’t think Ferry is a the greatest GM but he is definitely thorough and patient. He’s also smarter than people give him credit for… He’d rather lose out on a guy he wasn’t sure about than pull the trigger too fast and set this franchise back for good. 90% of the time that is a smart move. It’s the 1 in 10 that fans gripe about and never seem to forget.
The trade he made last year was solid… there was no doubt we were a better team after the deal. If Wallace can get his back spasms under control and return to form… it will be a great deal.
This team has enough talent to win a championship, right now. Ferry has positioned the team nicely to possibly add another piece this off season and make another big move before the trading deadline.
If we can make two good moves, we will be in excellent position to make a championship run this year. We have the assets and money (thanks to Gilbert’s deep pockets) to make it happen.
July 13th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
I think Ferry has done a poor job. He should have been patient a few years ago, but has really set this franchise back. Is he being patient or has the owner grown tired of paying some of the salaries that he has brought in?
Can anyone cite a positive in Ferry, since he has been in Cleveland? I give him a D at best.
July 13th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
“As far as cap room, it’s no obstacle for Gilbert… He’s given Ferry the green light and according to a reliable source on a message board, he’s even willing to go to 100 million in total salaries, if that’s what it takes to win a ’ship…”
The only problem with that is that’s not how the salary cap works. The Cavaliers ONLY have the MLE to use on a guy like JR Smith. Once you go over the cap, you cannot sign a guy above the MLE, unless you offer them an NBA minimum salary contract. Otherwise, clearing cap space would be of no concern to the Knicks or Nets or anyone else for that matter. They would go as far over the cap as they wanted to sign guys like LeBron and teams would have $200 million salaries like baseball.
The way teams get excessively over the cap is by having max increases on their contracts (as the salary cap limitations only apply to the base year of the contract), or by trading expiring deals for long term deals (the values only have to be equal on the current season). The only way you can offer a guy a contract if you are over the cap is by using one of the following exceptions: Bird, Early-Bird, Non-Bird, MLE, Bi-Annual, Rookie, Minimum Salary, and Disabled Player.
So no, the Cavs probably cannot offer JR Smith a contract that the Nuggets won’t match unless the Nuggets don’t want to use their MLE (which is entriely possible).
July 13th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
“Can anyone cite a positive in Ferry, since he has been in Cleveland?”
1. Traded for Flip Murray in 2006.
2. Found a way to trade away Larry Hughes and Donyell Marshall while maintaining the team’s future financial flexibility and arguably making this a better team in the process.
3. Drafted Daniel Gibson in the 2nd round
4. Signed Devin Brown to a reasonable contract
Now, lets compare that with his negatives:
1. Signed Larry Hughes
2. Signed Donyell Marshall
What am I forgetting? What other negatives are there? I’m having trouble thinking of them.
July 13th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
Another negative:
3. Has waited too long to get LeBron some decent backup.
When the hell is he gonna do it?
The Cavs need an SG, they need a better PG, and could probably use some talent off the bench.
Ferry should have done something by now.
July 13th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
Nice post!!! this is exactly what I was thinking!!!
July 13th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
If you want to glorify Ferry go ahead, but I don’t think he’s done much of anything. Flip Murray or Devin Brown are free agents that have bounced around a lot and can be had by anyone. Take LeBron off the team and they are the worst in the NBA.
July 13th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Your point about that we have no cap space and thats why we can’t sign players and how your sick of hearing its Ferry’s fault.
Well, whos is it? Just a few words before you mentioned the likes of Donyell(sp?) DJ and Larry. Whelp were still paying for them, or paying the equally crappy contracts we got from Chicago and Seattle. Thats the whole root of our problem, FERRY and his crappy mistakes that are still killing us.
July 13th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
Fans seem to forgot a lot of things when pointing to salary cap space.
First of all, only a couple of teams every summer have cap room. This year, it’s teams like Philly, GS, and LAC. Last season, it was Orlando and another team or two. Cap room is all about free agency. Well, you can never, ever, EVER build a championship-caliber team through FREE AGENCY. Never.
Why? Well, look at the championship-caliber teams of the past. The Celtics acquired Garnett and Allen through trade. The Lakers acquired Gasol through trade. Miami got Shaq through a trade. San Antonio built through the draft. The only free agent Detroit picked up was Billups, and that’s when he was regarded as garbage from Minnesota (traded Stack for Hamilton, Grant Hill for B. Wallace, and various garbage for Rasheed).
You just don’t build championship teams and get “help” through free agency. Most free agent signings are viewed at as risks with players who have serious injury histories and are past their prime. The ONLY two free agents to amount to anything significant over the last DECADE are Shaq in ‘96 with Orlando to L.A. and Nash in ‘04 from Dallas to Phoenix. Those were the only ground-breaking free agent signings.
If you want to get help around LeBron, you either draft well or you make a blockbuster trade. That’s the bottom line. The next person to point to free agency as a means of getting better is gonna piss me off.
July 13th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
@ Amar
I still think matching a full MLE offer for Smith would make them weary… They’re over the luxury tax by around 5 mil and re-signing Smith would basically make him a 10.4 million dollar player next year for them…
@ Andrew
Thanks, I knew I had a brain fart..
@ Brandon
Exactly…
@ Ed Ziti
Been patient and done what, Ed? Done what? Sit back and go after Bobby Simmons?
You mean those signings really set back the franchise, since they were contributing on the team that went to the NBA Finals? You mean he really set us back the last three years, when we’ve went to the playoffs all 3 years?
C’mon, that’s exactly what I’m talking about… Joke comments like that…
The owner has never grown tired of paying for anything…
Giving him a D…okay.
@ RockKing
I’m fully aware of that… I know how the cap works…
I’m just saying that Gilbert is willing to pay that much to put a ring on his finger… Money is no obstacle for him…
@ RockKing
Your forgot him re-signing Ilgauskas…
You also forgot the biggest re-sign in franchise history: getting LeBron to re-up…
You could add getting something for Luke Jackson and Jiri Welsch…
You could add dealing Lee Nailon to get the pick that would be Daniel Gibson…
You could add acquiring Cedric Simmons for nothing…
The Hughes signing wasn’t a bad signing.. Hughes was a good signing, but Hughes damaged himself…
Marshall? Definitely, but at the same time no one was complaining at the time and it was very understandable…
People playing Monday Morning QB say Ferry is a bad GM…
@ Steve
Sasha Pavlovic was his backup last year, which is fine with me… And he was the backup in Ferry’s first year here..
Ira Newble was it last year…
LeBron’s backup is the least of my worries… The guy would play 8 minutes a game, if he is lucky…
What could’ve he done by now? Explain that to me.
@ Ed Ziti
No one is glorifying him…
Take Kobe off that team and they’re not a contender… Wow!
@ AlexWesterh
Ferry and his crappy mistakes? What mistakes? Beside Marshall, I don’t see any mistakes beside some of his drafting blunders..
Did you not want Larry Hughes or Damon Jones? Did you want Bobby Simmons and some other scub?
He didn’t have many options that off-season and he went with the best that was available…
We’re not paying for them..
Equally bad contracts? LOL!
The whole root of the problem is Jim Paxson and has been the last 3 years…
——————
You guys can call Ferry a bad GM, but all I know is that we’ve been to the playoffs 3 times in a row (Finals once), have LeBron under contract until 2010 and he transformed this roster:
CT: Zydrunas Ilgauskas / DeSagna Diop / Scott Williams
PF: Drew Gooden / Tractor Traylor / Anderson Varejao
SF: LeBron James / Luke Jackson / Jerome Moiso
SG: Ira Newble / Lucious Harris / Sasha Pavlovic
PG: Jeff McInnis / Eric Snow / Dajuan Wagner
TO This:
CT: Zydrunas Ilgauskas / Anderson Varejao / Darnell Jackson / Lance Allred
PF: Ben Wallace / Joe Smith / JJ Hickson
SF: LeBron James /
SG: Sasha Pavlovic / Wally Szczerbiak / Billy Thomas
PG: Delonte West / Daniel Gibson / Damon Jones / Eric Snow
That’s not even complete and it’s a whole heckuva lot better than what he started out with…
If Paxson wouldn’t of stuck us with no draft picks, no good young talent, then we wouldn’t even be in this situation… It’s because of that, that we don’t have a very good team…
Look at all the young talent that good teams around the league have… It’s why they’re at where they’re at..
Because of Paxson we have none of that and we’ve had 3 “true” draft picks the last 3 years: Shannon Brown, Ejike Uboaja and JJ Hickson… That’s it… The rest of our picks, Ferry has had to acquire on his own… That’s what Paxson left him with…
Other good teams have had 3x as many picks as that in 3 years time…
Ugh…
@ Amar
Thanks…
July 13th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
Totally agree with this article, although I am not nearly as sold on JR Smith as you are. I think he is a good player and would be an upgrade over what we have for sure, but I would much rather have Childress. He isn’t a better 3 pt shooter but he is better at getting to the hole, creating his shot, and is a 10x better defender. He also isn’t immature. Smith is a good albeit streaky shooter and he has a good PER especially considering he is only 22, and for the MLE you can do way worse so after Childress, he is who I want the most but I would rather have Childress. I would be higher on Smith if he were more mature and not a terrible defender
I think that if the Nuggets were willing to match the MLE for Smith, they wouldn’t want to do a sign and trade. If they are willing to pay him 5.8 mil for 5 or 6 years, they would probably think he is pretty good and the only players on the Cavs I think they would want are maybe Varejao, and they probably would be ok with Gibson. I’d like to keep Gibson, but I’d give up Varejao in a heartbeat
I want to know how people actually can think that he set this franchise back. Smooth, you put it perfectly. Look at the rosters. When he got here, we were not a playoff team. Granted, Lebron’s improvement has done a lot to help that, but we aren’t just getting to the playoffs but we have been one of the best teams in the east 3 years in a row now. Ferry hasn’t been perfect, but he has learned from his mistakes that he made in his first year on the job and is better for it now.
July 13th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
@ Smooth
DANG thats some long post, but we did exactly what Amar was pointing out what we should NOT do. Over pay. So what that its slim pickins, all three of them are/were HIGHLY overpayed. Thus putting us in a salary cap bind. And when we made the trade, the money has to match up, we had to give bad contracts and get bad contracts, we basically traded Larrys atrocious contract for Big Ben’s. If you honestly are defending signing Larry theres something wrong with you.
July 13th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
Amar, you also make a brilliant point about free agency. I’d like someone to name a sport, any sport, where building through free agency is a good idea. and no, the transfer market in European Soccer doesn’t count
July 13th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
^Its worked for the Sox and Yanks.
Now granted I hate the way they ‘play’ the franchise game and think it needs to be stopped, but just making a point.
July 13th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
Everyone points at the New York Yankees as being a team that just buys players and every big free agent in order to succeed, but that’s not very accurate. First of all, they haven’t won anything in seven years and counting. Second, most of their team consists of guys they either drafted or traded for. Giambi, Damon, and Sheffield are the only big free agent signings that they’ve had in the past (and like I said about free agents - they usually leave their original team when they’re washed up and past their prime, and Damon and Sheffield fit that bill). They didn’t go hard after guys like Pedro Martinez of Johan Santana. They might not even go that hard after C.C. Sabathia, either. A-Rod was traded for with Texas. They acquired Bobby Abreu through trade.
So not even the Yankees have been this big free agent-signing mongul that everyone expects them to be. When you look at Boston, the example of Manny Ramirez fits the mold of the Shaq/Nash example in the NBA. He’s one of the rare free agent signings that has elevated a franchise far above and beyond where anyone thought it could go (shame on the Tribe for not throwing the bank at him back in ‘00).
Staying on the topic of the BoSox, they acquired David Ortiz as a bargain basement free agent in ‘03 when he was looked at as trash from Minnesota (maybe all trash coming out of Minny, like Billups and Ortiz, should be looked at more closely). The Sox picked him up for next to nothing, and it has paid monster dividends ever since.
Continuing with the baseball example, teams like the 05 ChiSox, 06 Cards, 06 Tigers, 07 Rockies, and 05 Astros either got to or won the World Series with homegrown talent, a flexible payroll, and just the right pieces to make a championship run. These teams didn’t go out and just spend loads of money to get to the World Series.
And that’s just baseball. In football, I think that both the offensive and defensive lines of the Colts are drafted players. In fact, I think every single one of their starters are guys they have drafted. The Giants won the Super Bowl with guys they brought up on their own, not free agent signings (the one key FA they’ve had was Burress, and he wasn’t an earth-shattering free agent - he was a third-tier receiver signed in 05 who fit the team well).
I could go on and on, but the point is that free agency isn’t an avenue for success. I’m not saying that it’s completely unimportant, as the right free agent here and there (Chauncey Billups, Plaxico Burress, David Ortiz) can put you over the top. That’s exactly why I could care less about free agents like Elton Brand, Corey Maggette, Baron Davis, or last year’s big FA Rashard Lewis. J.R. Smith is the kind of guy who can be had for cheap right now and could pay big dividends later.
When it comes to being a good GM, that kind of eye is what makes you great. Ferry had it with Daniel Gibson. I hope he can see what I’m seeing right now in J.R. Smith.
July 14th, 2008 at 2:26 am
The problem isn’t Ferry making quick stupid moves, he makes slow stupid moves.
Back in 2005 wasn’t Ferry being patient so that he could make a run at Brand in 2008? Wasn’t Brand a part of Ferry’s patence plan? And since when did a player like Elton Brand become middle of the road talent?
How patient can Ferry really be? He is the Gm of a team located in flyover country. How does Ferry compete with the teams who will also have much money to spend on the same players that he is being patient in going after? Please explain why would top notch talent relocate to Cleveland to play in Mike Brown’s system as opposed to going to Miami,Dallas, LA or wherever? What’s going to happen is Ferry will overpay for more Donyell Marshall like players. The Cavs will continue to be a poorly coached and a badly constructed team.
July 14th, 2008 at 5:57 am
“I’m fully aware of that… I know how the cap works…
I’m just saying that Gilbert is willing to pay that much to put a ring on his finger… Money is no obstacle for him…”
Well, you said ‘as far as cap room is concerned’, which implied that the cap wasn’t an issue for Ferry. I was confused about your point, that’s all.
July 14th, 2008 at 6:13 am
Eric-
Ferry targeting Brand for three years is news to me. Fake news. I don’t think Brand was that big of a target to begin with. Since 2005? Is that some kind of joke?
July 14th, 2008 at 6:20 am
the larry hughes signing at the time was ferry overpaying. however, nearly every free agent signing is an overpayment. even guys in this offseason. brand? overpaid. baron davis? overpaid. maggette VERY overpaid. the point is you cant build a championship team through overpaying free agents, as noted above. its better when free agents can supplement holes in the roster. back to hughes - yes he was overpaid but the general consensus at the time was it was a good signing. the alternative was overpaying for cuttino mobley, the only other viable SG left on the market. id prefer to have overpaid for hughes rather than mobley. the marshall and jones signings werent THAT bad. those werent signings that are impossible to move or handcuff a franchise for years and years. (see kenyon martin, jerome james, etc). jones probably had one year too many, but he is at least useful and likely tradeable this season at some point. marshall simply got about 10 years older overnight, yet was still tradeable. im not a ferry apologist, but he hasnt really made that many bad decisions and really hasnt made any awful ones. hes done some nice things, but nothing truly spectacular. somebody noted above, and its completely true, the cavs have had nearly no tradeable assets since paxson had drafted so badly for so long or else he traded away draft picks stupidly. sure ferry could have bought a draft pick or two back, but those would have been mid to low first round picks or second rounders. nobody is selling lottery picks.
July 14th, 2008 at 6:22 am
targeting elton brand since 2005? if a GM is targeting one particular player for over 3 years (how does ferry know in 2005 that brand would blow out an achilles and still opt out in 2008?), then that GM is putting way too many eggs in one basket.
July 14th, 2008 at 6:31 am
one point im very sick of is hearing Ferry-bashers point to the shannon brown pick as evidence of ferry’s ineptitude. “ferry blew that draft pick” is completely unfair. it was a #25 pick! it wasnt a lottery pick. most players in the lottery dont pan out, let alone a #25 pick. go look at the list of players drafted after shannon brown and there isnt a game-changer in the list. theres nobody that i see and think “man i wish we had that guy on the team.” sure there are a few like jordan farmar, leon powe, or paul milsap who are decent role players who can help a team, but all those are really bench players at best. farmar can get away with starting on the lakers since they have Kobe, bynum, gasol, odom. plus, you cant discount the fact that ferry still came out ahead in that draft by obtaining Gibson in the second round. the bottom line is, if you tell me we have a #25 pick, a high second rounder and a very late second rounder in any given draft and that we can come out of that with two “busts” and one extremely useful player who has one skill (in this case three-point shooting) in which that player is on an elite level in the league, i would take it and say job well done.
July 14th, 2008 at 8:17 am
Good article/debate here. Regardless of Ferry’s past, I agree that patience is key right now. Hopefully we can add one good player for the MLE before the season, and turn our expirings into a very talented player around the deadline. A lot of people in Cleveland have been talking about the lack of chemistry last year and how bad deadline deals can be, but if we don’t switch half of our team right at the deadline I think we will be ok.
Amar - have you heard any new news on Windhorst? I haven’t been paying attention and was wondering if you knew anything.
July 14th, 2008 at 9:03 am
tom-
I’m still a little irked at Ferry for picking Brown over Jordan Farmar. I guess he made up for it with the Gibson pick, as I’d much rather have Gibson over Farmar anyways, but it’s still not as if Farmar’s a gamebreaker or anything. Ferry’s only really had three picks to work with since he became GM. So far, we know he’s batting .500 since Gibson panned out and Brown didn’t, and the jury hasn’t even had a chance to evaluate Hickson. If anyone’s going to evaluate Ferry’s drafting, then they have to point to Daniel Gibson first and foremost before they point at Shannon Brown.
Andrew-
I don’t know what’s going on with Brian Windhorst at all besides bits and pieces of details that I read here and there. I’ll post anything if I hear something new, for sure.
July 14th, 2008 at 9:23 am
amar - obviously id rather have farmar over shannon brown as well. goes without saying. leading up to that pick i had heard that ferry was initially planning on taking gibson with that #25 pick until brown dropped and then tried to trade up to get gibson later in the first round but couldnt make the trade. it worked out that gibson dropped to him in the second round. also leading up to that pick i had a feeling farmar would be the selection. my point is that it is totally unfair to label ferry as “unable to draft well” based on the shannon brown pick (not that you have, but many have on here and other sites). feel free to criticize paxson’s inability to draft well based on years and years of bad drafting (or good drafting, followed by bad trades/moves, like jamal crawford, andre miller, carlos boozer, brendan haywood). the track history on ferry just isnt long enough yet to make a judgment.
July 14th, 2008 at 9:49 am
I totally agree on that draft sentiment, although trading Andre Miller was crucial because if he were still on the team, Cleveland would have been just good enough to not have a good chance at getting Lebron. If Paxson had been able to leave us with even one good young player or even some draft picks, its possible that none of this would even be an issue as we could be in a great position to win championships
Remember when we drafted Brown and everyone said how much of a steal that pick was? shows what people know
July 14th, 2008 at 9:56 am
The only MSU guy I knew anything about at the time was Maurice Ager and even he turned out to be a bust.
July 14th, 2008 at 10:12 am
to clarify, i thought trading miller was the right idea then. however, trading him for darius miles? no draft picks? no “prospects?” terrible! i was amazed that andre miller had more trade value 2 seasons ago when he was part of the allen iverson trade than when paxson traded him during miller’s prime. unreal (and sickening). enough ranting about paxson for me. he was awful.
July 14th, 2008 at 11:25 am
I think we can all agree that Paxson was just terrible
July 14th, 2008 at 11:32 am
@ Ricky
I’m not completely sold on Smith, but I really do like him…
I do want to point out a couple of things…
Childress is not better at getting to the hole…
46% of Smith’s “inside” shots last year were assisted, compared to Childress’s 59%… I’m not sure if you’re aware what it means but it basically tells one that Smith could get to the hole a lot easier without having someone to throw him the ball (or an assist)… Although Childress did convert at a higher clip (65% to Smith’s 60%)..
Childress is no where near the shot creator that Smith is… Smith had a great 23.6 USG rate last year (49th in the league) compared to Childress’s dismal 14.8 USG rate (48th amongst SF’s)…
The usage rate basically measures the ability a player can create his own shot… LeBron had a 32.7 USG Rate (best in the league), just for comparison’s sake…
And I’m not so sure Childress is better defensively either… I haven’t seen either of them play much, so again I’ll rely on the stats to tell part of the picture…
Last year Smith had a -1.1 on/off court defensive rating…
Last year Childress had +4.2 on/off court defensive rating…
That means the Nuggets were worse on defense with Smith on the floor and the Hawks were a lot better defensively when Childress was off the floor…
Smith held opposing SG’s to a PER of 15.4 (decent)…
Childress held opposing SF’s to a 18.4 PER (terrible) and SG’s to a 13.4 PER (very good)…
Prior seasons favor Childress, but I don’t think he’s 10x as good as a defender as Smith is… I think Smith is average, while Childress is above-average…
@ AlexWesterh
How did you expect to get those free agents here? Free agents go to where the money is at and we had to overpay to get those guys… We were a terrible ballclub and the time and to attract top-notch talent we had to overpay for them…
I know you should never, ever do that but we had to in that case to get talent…
I honestly do see what was so wrong with the Hughes signing… I don’t like him and I think he was a bad player, BUT put yourself in Ferry’s shoes… Hughes has been a solid player his whole career, a little injury prone but it doesn’t look like anything serious… Hughes is just about to enter his prime and you can only expect good things from him… He’s not the perfect fit here but he looks to be a solid player and is the best thing left out on the market…
If Hughes wouldn’t have beat himself up, I think he could have been solid here.. But the injuries took a toll on his game and it showed..
BTW, Hughes was on LeBron’s wish list that summer…
@ Eric
They may not like his system but they know as long as they know they can get it done defensively, they can do whatever they want offensively.. I don’t know about you but as I player I wouldn’t mind that at all…
How do you know Ferry is going to overpay for more Marshall players? YOU DON’T!
I think he’s learned from his mistakes and is why we’re not in serious contention for Posey… He’ll be 32, is coming off of a great season and wants at least 4 years for the full MLE…
If this poorly constructed and badly coached team wins, then I could careless… That’s obviously your opinion but I don’t think it’s poorly coached and badly constructed in any manner… Their far from perfect but their also not the dump you say they are…
@ RockKing
My bad… I should have been more clear…
Bottom line: money is not an issue for Gilbert
@ tom
Great comments so far, keep it up… Totally agree…
Also about Shannon Brown…
At the time Brown was considered a lottery pick… I remember experts saying there’s no way Brown falls past the lotto… Then once Brown was at our point, I remember basically everyone calling for Ferry’s head if we didn’t go for Brown…
@ Ricky
Yep and that terrible has cost us, big time even though he did land LeBron (because of his ineptitude)…
But you have to give Mike Brown’s coaching staff for developing some of the players he’s been by Paxson: Varejao, Gooden, Pavlovic, etc…
July 14th, 2008 at 11:55 am
for what its worth, ive done fantasy basketball the past few seasons and josh childress seems to be one of those guys thats added and dropped a gazillion times all season. i think every team owns him at least once. jr smith was a guy that was typically drafted and rarely dropped. not sure what that means, but thought id throw that out there.
July 14th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
Smith is lazy in clogging passing lanes and does not offer much help defense, but Mike Brown has shown the ability to get the most out of his players on defense. Childress usually has to guard opponents best players, I think at least, because the Hawks don’t have many good defenders minus the occasional block party from Josh Smith. I thought Childress was better at creating his own shot based on his high FG% but I obviously miscalled that one. I wish I had looked at those stats, pretty much everything I have said is based on what I have seen when I watched them play, where do you go to get those stats?
July 14th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
I should criticize you more often, Smooth.
Great post.
So far as the subject is concerned, I believe it’s been covered fairly well. I’m still with Amar on this. Ferry has done a decent job, but botching the chance of buying draft picks is all bad. Two years in a row, now.
As a footnote, Ferry’s latest reason to be bashed just went 11-15 from the floor for 26 points and 9 rebounds (7 offensive) in the first summer league game. Not too shabby.
July 14th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
@ Ricky
True about MB… Look at LeBron, Gooden, Damon, Sasha, etc..
True about Childress as well but if you throw that out there also throw out what a poor defensive team that Denver was and that the Nuggets played at the fastest pace in the league last year…
82games.com is one of the best statistical sites out there for basketball… They have unbelievable stats and if you like stats, I strongly suggest you check them out…. It’s where I get most of my stats from…
My other source is John Hollinger… He has his own stats section in the NBA stats section but I think you have to have ESPN Insider to get them…
Another good site is Knickerblogger.net… They have both nice team and player stats, that are for free and are much like Hollinger’s… They’re the same but not as many as Hollinger’s…
http://www.knickerblogger.net/stats/2008/
Basketball-reference.com is another solid site, especially for team stats (offensive and defensive ratings)…
Hoops Analyst runs a good site… http://www.hoopsanalyst.com/hoopshome.htm
Another tremendous site is popcornmachine.net… They do game flow charts, which are very nice tools…
http://popcornmachine.net/GameFlows.html
Here’s another great site:
http://www.dougstats.com/
There’s a lot more stuff out there, all you have to do is search for it…
@ Shaun
Thanks…
I agree with you on Ferry… I’m not saying he’s amazing but he’s far from terrible…
Buying back into the 1st round two years was a big disappointment, but who knows really what goes on in the war room…
Hickson really impressed me, especially with some of those amazing put-backs…
July 18th, 2008 at 9:37 am
i think most fans refuse to recognize how severely crippled we were by paxson’s squandering of our draft picks. and as long as we have lebron (barring injury) and coach brown, we’re not going to get a lottery pick any time soon.
yes, just looking at the history tom izzo coached guards should have scared ferry off of shannon brown, not to mention the fact that shannon brown is really only about 6′1″ (brian windhorst of the ABJ confirmed this in a private email a while back). i get it though - no one wants a 6′1″ SG, while you can be a 6′1″ PG. but since we also got our original target at 42, i consider it a wash. living in s.ca, i was hoping they’d take farmar instead of brown.
one thing no one seems to have mentioned - ferry came from san antonio - a “small market” franchise that has won multiple championships *and* kept its superstar happy. i submit that those lessons learned were part of what made it possible to re-sign Z - and will be enough to keep lebron in cleveland for the rest of his career. re-signing gibson was crucial IMO - lebron apparently loves this kid - and more importantly implicitly trusts gibson’s ability to shoot; maybe another player who inspires that kind of confidence will prompt lebron to give up the ball more often, so we see the same kind of ball movement the celtics had - even though most of what they did was run the pick and roll at the top of the key - but sometimes 2-3 times in the same possession. i honestly believe that *this* is what mike brown envisions - but lebron won’t give up the ball until he trusts his teammates a little more.
July 18th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
barry,
No doubt that Paxson fucked up this team, almost beyond repair. Just recklessly trading away picks and picking busts in the rare occassions that he kept them is no way to build a team. Give Ferry this much, though: He can draft pretty well. Shannon Brown was a flop, but Boobie Gibson could be on the verge of becoming an All-Star. And J.J. Hickson is going to make Bill Simmons look like a complete idiot (it’s probably already too late for that, but still) for saying nothing other than the fact that Hickson’s name “sounds like a porn name” and that it “seems like the Cavs are trying to drive LeBron out of Cleveland.” That fool is going to look like a stooge because of that, and I can’t wait to spend a post just calling him out on that. You know I’m just sitting around here doing nothing but waiting for that time to come.
July 21st, 2008 at 11:43 am
[…] The Cavaliers have been quiet this summer. They drafted J.J. Hickson and made a draft day pick up of Darnell Jackson. They recently re-signed Daniel Gibson. But while fans cried for a Redd trade, or even a Posey signing, no Cleveland transactions came across the wire. The Cavs have reportedly tried to make some moves, but none were to Danny Ferry’s liking. Many have blamed Ferry for not being able to put the right pieces together to put the team over the top. Others have suggested that Ferry is merely being patient. […]
August 13th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
[…] friends over at Cavalier Attitude recently praised Ferry for his patience, and this is why. Ferry could have panicked. He could have overpaid for a medium talent like James […]
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