Artest, Part 1: Why I like Ron Artest, the basketball player
Marc Stein, that master of dangling hope in front of the faces of frustrated fans, floated Cleveland as a possible endpoint of Ron Artest Fire Sale III, noting that Wally Sczerbiak’s expiring contract and expired legs would make sense in a swap for Artest and Kenny Thomas. You probably like this deal. Here’s why you should love it and be standing outside of Danny Ferry’s office petitioning him or trying to scrounge sufficient blackmail material on the Maloof Brothers to make this go down. (On the latter: all you really need is a ticket to Vegas, a cell phone camera, and a stroke of good fortune.)
To get things straight: Yes, Ron Artest isn’t a great shooter. He’s not Gerald Wallace/Josh Smith horrible-.400 eFG on jumpers is the Mendoza line and .500 is about as good as it gets for wing players who aren’t specialists, and Ron-Ron is at a deeply passable 44%. And if you tell me that this team needs good shooters on the wings to create space for LeBron, I will make a pencil disappear inside your skull.
First off, that’s one step up from a crock of crap. Teams choose rotating to stop penetration over sticking on a shooter every single time, and when LeBron is making plays the defense is set so that any “shooters” are far enough away from LeBron so that they’ll have time to close out. The only way to “create space” for LeBron is to make the defense react to another player, and guys who stand still and shoot don’t do that.
Second, we have shooters. Daniel Gibson and Wally Z are dead-eye, Delonte and Damon are extremely good, and Devin Brown can’t be left alone. Did LeBron get any space against Boston? Was our offense above-average? No. Instead of trying to get players based on an offensive concept that doesn’t even make that much sense under scrutiny, maybe we should focus on getting good basketball players and letting things work themselves out.
And Ron Artest is a basketball player. He fights under his own flag, but the guy’s a warrior. Say what you will about the merits of being on Artest’s side of the court, but it’s a hell of a lot better than being on the other side of the court from him. More and more, I’m becoming convinced that’s what we need to make this offense work. Right now it’s a bunch of solid players content to take LeBron’s leftover opportunities and settle for deep jumpers late in the shot clock and the occasional gorgeous setup. Artest is a guy who can create shots and isn’t afraid to go down to the basket himself and make things happen. He’s the type of blue-collar offensive player that doesn’t need good entry passers, open looks, or an open floor to do damage; he just goes out and gets buckets in fair weather or foul.
Oh, and the defense. West/Artest/James/Wallace/Ilgauskas? Are you KIDDING ME? Now Mike Brown doesn’t have to choose between expending LeBron’s energy on defense and watching Wally Sczerbiak giving it his best shot on the other team’s best scorer. And in the playoffs, when LeBron typically takes the restrictor plate off defensively? Yikes. Who’s scoring on that team?
Yes, Ron-Ron’s had some problems with Ben Wallace and Mike Brown that trace back to his days in Indiana. But last I checked, the front office wasn’t working to make them as comfortable as possible. They were working to win basketball games.
So to recap: Ron Artest, hell yes, from a basketball standpoint. For the rest of the goodness, come back tomorrow.
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23 Responses to “Artest, Part 1: Why I like Ron Artest, the basketball player”
July 19th, 2008 at 6:45 am
Interesting post. For a second there I was ALMOST thinking about changing my position on this trade. But then my reason took over again.
Ok, yes, Artest’s PER is solid and in theory, on talent alone, Ron Artest would be an upgrade to the Cavs roster. But as I’ve said before and will keep saying, the Cavs don’t need help on defense, they need help on offense. And offensively, Ron Artest is a black hole. Once the ball enters his atmosphere, there’s no chance that ball is leaving. Look at how pathetic his assist numbers are, particularly for a SG/SF. Artest grinds offenses to a crawl. His habit of dribbling, dribbling, dribbling until the shot clock is low and then making some kind of move is legendary. He’s done it his entire career. That is NOT what this Cavs team needs. We already have LeBron who does that too much. This team needs a dynamic offensive player who can work in the flow of the offense with LeBron. The last thing we need is a guy who’s going to be pissing LeBron off because he’ll never give the ball back. No thank you.
And even if by chance Artest WAS the kind of player the Cavs needed, this trade would still be disaster just because of the Kenny Thomas factor. We’re trying to talk ourselves into liking this deal because we just want the Cavs to do SOMETHING. But the trap Ferry cannot, and I believe will not, fall into is just making a deal for the sake of making a deal. I refuse to believe the Cavs can’t do better in a trade than freaking Ron Artest and Kenny Thomas.
July 19th, 2008 at 7:02 am
Ron Artest is the Ray Lewis of the NBA. No doubt about that. He is a badass in every sense of the word, the best perimeter defender without a freaking doubt, and would certainly inject a heluva lot of attitude on this team.
I really don’t want to take back Kenny Thomas’ contract under any circumstances, but when trying to talk myself into it, I tell myself that Thomas’ deal is up in 2010 and the Cavs, although having one of the highest payrolls in the league, would have all their salaries concentrated between now and 2010. The only contracts that go beyond 2010 are Boobie’s new deal and…AND…LeBron’s deal if he picks up that option for 2011. In other words, Boobie’s deal is the only one that goes through 2010.
We’d be shedding a lot of salary by then and putting ourselves in great position to make a title run, which I think Artest can help us do. But let’s face it: If Ferry had dirt on the Maloofs, then Mike Bibby would be a Cav by now and a small part of me would have died and gone to heaven.
July 19th, 2008 at 7:05 am
And how about the fact that Artest and Ben Wallace HATE each other? Those were the two guys that started that brawl at the Palace back in ‘04, and Artest went on the record as saying he’d like to have a pay-per-view fight set up with Wallace. Combine all this with LeBron’s impending free agency, an impatient fanbase, and an aggressive ownership, and we’d be in for one hell of a soap opera season in Cleveland.
July 19th, 2008 at 7:32 am
This reminds me of what you said in my interview with you Amar….when discussing Larry Hughes, you mentioned that when deals make you better, you shouldn’t have to talk yourself into it. And that’s exactly what we’re all doing here with Artest and Thomas….we’re trying to talk ourselves into this somehow making sense for the Cavs.
July 19th, 2008 at 7:55 am
As the FIRST person to bring up the CAVs and Artest (check the archives a couple of weeks ago when people on this website were clamoring for Maggette and Posey, etc., and way before Mark Stein.) I would like to add in here again. I still say getting Artest would be like getting Maggette’s offense and Posey’s defense and 3 point shot all role up in one player. (Admittedly including a lot of baggage). As much as I want to see us get him I wouldn’t take on Kenny Thomas’ salary unless they are going to take back some of our bad contracts. I know they say they won’t do it otherwise but I say that additional salary AND the Artest risks are too much.
July 19th, 2008 at 8:24 am
King-
I agree…although I don’t have to talk myself into bringing in Artest based on the size of his contract (just a year), I definitely have to talk myself into taking back Kenny Thomas.
But I’d love to see Artest and Wallace on the same team, despite the fact that it could be the very demise of the Cavaliers.
How about Wallace for Artest and Kenny Thomas? That would work out according to the salaries.
July 19th, 2008 at 9:13 am
what if we insisted that someone like quincy douby be included with artest and thomas?
July 19th, 2008 at 10:02 am
I don’t know what to make of Douby. In 2 seasons he’s yet to even surpass the 10.00 PER mark, which is pretty bad. He’s never shot 40% from the field and he’s never shot better than 35% from 3-pt range. His assists per 40 min average last year was only 2.4. So, I don’t really see what Douby is going to bring to the team.
July 19th, 2008 at 10:29 am
If the Kings want to dump salary, I don’t think they would want Ben Wallace. I totally agree with Rock, this is just a bad idea waiting to happen. You can’t just take a good player and throw him on a team and expect the team to just become better; there has to be a fit. Yes, he would make our defense a ton better, but I don’t think he would make our offense any more efficient, its just another player who holds onto the ball way too much. In fact it might just make our offense worse because Lebron wouldn’t be making as many plays. The dude also has some injury concerns, the most games he has played in a season is 76 and that was his 2nd year in the league and has only played 70 or more games in a year 4 times in his career. Last year he only played in 57. And while the front office isn’t trying to make Mike Brown and Ben Wallace comfortable, putting guys who hate each other on the same team usually doesn’t help a team win games. It would create a huge distraction that doesn’t need to be there. We don’t want to recreate the Knicks here, we want to win and putting a guy who is hated by an important member of this team and would make our offense worse is not the answer
July 19th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
the other half on the equation is: should artest actually come and fit in, can we afford to retain him next summer?
while not saying that artest would be a good idea (why not try for lamar odom - bynum coming back would move gasol back to PF and jackson won’t play odom at SF since odom doesn’t have 3 pt range - and wally would give them a shooter.) it seems to me that the presence of artest would make varejao superfluous. if mgmt did pursue this, i’d hope to get the kings to take varejao as well.
July 19th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
The Cavs are going to have tons of money to spend next summer…..assuming they don’t waste all their cap space taking on contracts like Kenny Thomas. So affording Ron Artest isn’t the problem. The question is, would you rather have Ron Artest and Kenny Thomas, or would you rather get UFA next year like Andre Miller, Mike Bibby, Jason Kidd, Allen Iverson, Al Harrington, Shawn Marion, etc?
July 19th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
isnt joe johnson unrestricted next summer? i believe mike miller is as well
July 19th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
JJ goes unrestricted in 2010.
July 19th, 2008 at 8:27 pm
I love Artest and would be willing to take on a bad contract to get him but that’s if he can stay on the court…
I love what he does on the court, I think he’d be a solid fit here (not my first choice)… But he’s never on the court…
Last year he played in 57 games…
The year before he played in 70 games…
The year before that he played in 56 games…
Heck the guy has only played in 70+ games in the past 5 years…
He’s never stayed healthy for 80+ games…
He plays physical and I don’t know if it’s the best to acquire a physical type of player that can’t stay healthy…
We saw what the injuries did to Hughes’ game…
I’d like Artest but his injuries scare the crap out of me…
Not only that but his offensive stalling ability when he has the ball… Although, he would just add to LeBron’s here…
July 19th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
Well for what it’s worth, the Hickson Watch continues in Vegas: His first double-double with 17 pts and 10 boards, but on 6-15 shooting and 5 turnovers. That’s now 17.3 pts and 8.5 boards for the Summer League with one more game to go.
Solid showing…but I don’t think he’ll crack the rotation this year.
July 19th, 2008 at 10:03 pm
Oh, and I forgot to mention the terrible 5-for-13 shooting from the stripe that cost the Cavs the game, 79-78, against the Hornets. It’s scary to imagine what this guy could do if he just MADE HIS FREE THROWS!!!
July 21st, 2008 at 6:59 am
there are reports linking the cavaliers to DeVean George. anyone know anything about him? all i know about him is when he blocked that trade last year - (which i might add the criticism was unwarranted. why should he freely give up his bird rights to help the team out? he did the right thing, in my opinion).
also - i read somewhere that snow’s retirement due to an inability to play is being processed. is that the case? how would that affect the cavs’ ability to sign free agent(s) this offseason or would they just pocket that cash (or a majority thereof) for cap purposes?
July 21st, 2008 at 7:33 am
Well with Snow’s 7 million off the books we could possibly match the offer Josh Childress is considering to play in Greece.
July 21st, 2008 at 7:39 am
from what i understand, those Euro offers are tax free. between that and the exchange rate, an NBA team has to grossly overpay to match such value. i read that Delfino’s contract (about 3 mil Euro / year) equates to roughly $9mil (US) / year to account for the tax loss and exchange rate. yeah - thats not getting matched anywhere.
July 21st, 2008 at 8:57 am
Players in Europe also don’t have to pay commission for their agents - the teams pat it without including it in the contract. So that is up to 5% of their contract that they get to keep. And the most we will be able to offer Childress no matter what this year is the MLE. Snow’s 7 mil will only help us out in terms of luxury tax, because we are more than 7 mil over the cap. What also might happen is the NBA gives the Cavs a 7 million dollar trade exception, which would be amazing, because that would help a lot in trying to bring in a top player in a trade
July 22nd, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Amar,
With regard to your comment on JJ “not cracking the rotation”…define “cracking the rotation”. Is it getting offensive sparkplug minutes in relief of Big Z, or is it playing legit Varejao-like minutes?
If it’s the latter…I agree. JJ has a lot to clean up in his game before he plays those kinds of minutes. Granted, he can really score on the block and grab some rebounds…but not a whole lot else. I read somwehere that he was borderline clueless on defense. Let’s get him ready to go and then give him minutes when he earns them (reasonable forecast - he starts to make a difference following All Star Break)
If it’s the former…I see no reason why he can’t get some minutes in relief of the tall fella. If there’s a dearth of offense on the block at a given juncture in the game, we could stick JJ in there alongside Big Ben, and let him get points around the basket, in a Erick Dampier-like fashion. Basically, like I said, offensive sparkplug. The Boobie of our big men, if you will.
Either way, I think you underrate Hickson’s potential impact immediately in the season. It won’t be much, but it’ll be noticeable. Carl Landry did it, playing behind Luis Scola and Dikembe Mutombo. Hickson has much more actual skills at this point than Landry did, so there’s no reason to believe otherwise, unless JJ’s defense is really that bad, and then some.
July 22nd, 2008 at 1:39 pm
i agree with Sri. it would be great to get JJ in there along side wallace or Andy to spell Z for a bit. that absolute worst big-man duo last season was when the cavs had wallace and andy in there at the same time. awful. having a guy like JJ as part of that duo could make a big difference. that being said, its going to be interesting to see how JJ does against real NBA talent once camp starts. he did well in the summer league, which is clearly better than struggling, but not all those guys are NBA caliber (although most, if not all are pro-caliber on some level).
assuming hickson can get 10-15 mins/game this season, his offensive “spark” and rebounding should outweigh his defensive liabilities for such a short amount of time.
July 22nd, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Sri-
By cracking the rotation, I mean not being a part of the normal rotation of guys who get the majority of the minutes. For example, when Z goes to the bench in the first quarter, Joe Smith comes in to replace him while Wallace moves to center. When Wallace goes out, Varejao comes in. Those four guys rotate in and out, and the guy who gets most of the PT on any given night depends on the matchup favorability and the flow of the game.
If you’re not one of those four guys, you’re not a part of the regular rotation. The non-rotation guys are the guys you see come in for mop-up duty or with like a minute left to play in the half or at the end of blowouts. They’re mostly energy players who are extremely situational, to say the least.
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