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Thoughts from the Dark Side
Oakland Raiders defensive line’s makeover not nearly complete
Patrick A. Patterson/MVN.com
The Oakland Raiders had the second worst run defense in the NFL in 2007. The unit most responsible for stopping the run is the defensive line. Thus far in the offseason the Raiders resigned Tommy Kelly and let Chris Clemons and Tyler Brayton go. The Raiders desperately need to bring in reinforcements for this unit. Besides Kelly, only Jason Richardson, Terdell Sands, Gerrard Warren, and two time Pro Bowler Derrick Burgess are the only defensive linemen on the Raiders’ roster who have and NFL game experience. Does anyone have any faith that Josh Shaw is going to come through?
As it stands now the starting defensive line would be Derrick Burgess and Jason Richardson at defensive ends and Tommy Kelly and Gerrard Warren as the starting defensive tackles. This is far from an ideal starting line and leaves an astonishing lack of depth. Terdell Sands is the only rotation player with any experience. ouch.
DEFENSIVE TACKLE:
Tommy Kelly will be filling Warren Sapp’s shoes and play the three technique tackle. This means that it will be Kelly’s job to split the center and the guard and be a disrupter in the back field. Kelly should do well in that role, as he was endorsed by the QB Killa himself.
Gerrard Warren has the same skill set as Kelly and in passing situations a tackle tandem of Warren and Kelly should be quite lethal. The problem is that in most downs having two defensive tackles who specialize in shooting the gap to get at the quarterback creates a huge problem against the run.
Terdell Sands has the size to be a nose tackle which would be the compliment to Kelly or Warren, but he has yet to play to his size. His main focus should be occupying as many offensive linemen as possible to free the Raiders’ athletic linebacker corps to make the tackles.
NEEDS: The Raiders need a space eating defensive tackle who will swallow offensive linemen. The best example of this is a young Ted Washington. Whomever takes this position will not get many sacks, if any. He also will not get too many tackles, but his presence will redirect runs and free the linebackers to make more tackles. Here is where Sedrick Ellis or Glenn Dorsey would come in handy.
DEFENSIVE END:
Derrick Burgess is one of the top pass rushers in the league, and that got him two straight Pro Bowls. He is on the small side for a defensive end, leaving him overmatched at times in the running game.
Jay Richardson showed flashes last year, and was good enough to beat out third round pick Quintin Moses for a roster spot. Richardson is more of a base end who should be able to help stuff the run. Chris Clemons often got starts over him, but Clemons was a poor man’s Derrick Burgess who was more of a pass rusher.
NEEDS: The Raiders need depth at defensive end. Losing Clemons was not as big a loss as it would seem. Having him lined up on the opposite side from Burgess was good for passing downs, but was a liability against the run. Chris Long, if available, would be a great pick as a base end opposite Burgess, and would leave Richardson as depth.
There is an old truism in football that to win you need to run the ball and stop the run. The Raiders ran the ball effectively last season, but couldn’t stop the run at all. If the Raiders want to stop the run next year, they need to continue to beef up the defensive line. By adding the “beef” along the line, they will free the linebackers to make stops rather than fighting off offensive linemen that had mauled the defensive line. By the way, the New York Giants showed what a pass rush could do in the Super Bowl.
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75 Responses to “Oakland Raiders defensive line’s makeover not nearly complete”
March 8th, 2008 at 2:12 am
[…] line makeover not nearly complete Thoughts from the Dark Side | MVN - Most Valuable Network » Blog Archive » Oakland Raiders defensive… __________________ "While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a […]
March 8th, 2008 at 3:00 am
You are right man!!We still need things to do…As you mentioned we need a huge nt thats why we don’t need Dorsey or Ellis…they are ut’s and in the nfl they will play the same that Kelly and Warren plays.I would love C.Long with the 4th pick, but if he’s gone i want to trade down…i know Al never trade down in the 1st,but it makes the most sense so please…we need picks.it would be great if we could get an other second a a 3rd pick.Then in the 1st we could choose a LT in the second Calais Cambell and a NT like Red Bryant,Dre Moore,Pat Sims or Frank Okam…some of them will be avaiable in the 3rd and maybe in 4th so with our 2 we could get a WR…3rd Mike Pollack…4th the NT…
March 8th, 2008 at 4:14 am
Rolni,
LT is a VERY deep position in this draft, and there are possible 8 going in the first 2 rounds. Jake Long does not project well to the ZB scheme as he lacks the elite mobility of an elite LT prospect. Also, the Raiders already have Kwame and Henderson to battle it out at the LT.
On the DL,
There is no doubt that the weakest position on the line is DE. I was happy to see some flashes from Richardson, I am not confident just handing the kid the position. The lack of depth here is glaringly apparent with the loss of Clemons. No matter what you think of Clemons, a platoon between him and Richardson, could have developed into something pretty good. Richardson for the run, and Clemons for the pass. I still believe that with some more time, and a better set of DTs Clemons could have been just fine against the run.
At DT, I disagree with Patrick that Warren will start. I think it will be Kelly and Sands, and Warren will come in on passing downs. I am becoming more and more comfortable with this grouping, but we still need depth at the DT position, especially concidering Kelly’s knee, and Sands motivation or lack there of. I think that Warren could fill in for Kelly if injured, but there is no replacement for Sands. For this reason the Raiders need to draft depth at the 2 gap NT position, or a Space Eater, as Patrick so often states.
It appears we are slightly more secure at DT, since the loss of Clemons, so DE is the greater need, followed by DT. Unfortunately, I don’t think C. Long will be there at #4, so DT will probably be addressed in the 1st with Dorsey. There is a chance that both will be gone however, at that means McFadden is still on the board. Ellis is overvalued at #4, and Jake Long is too, not to mention he just doesn’t translate to the system, and we just signed Kwame and Green. Thus, as I have said many times before, McFadden must then be taken. To much value to pass up, and this screams Al Davis. The DL will be addressed in the later rounds or via trade of McFadden.
OakFoSho
March 8th, 2008 at 4:20 am
Also,
I know many people like Golston, and I do too, just not overvalued at #4. No to mention he is undersized at DE, the same problem Clemons had, so he really doesn’t translate to this conversation.
OakFoSho
March 8th, 2008 at 7:06 am
Did anyone see the Michael Smith interview on ESPN Sat morning about how the two teams most interested in D Hall are Washington and Oakland with the Giants still in the mix?
I haven’t seen any articles about it so I thought I would ask to see how accurate that is. MIchael Smith usually has his info straight….who knows????
March 8th, 2008 at 7:42 am
I cant see why we would be interested in D Hall. We have better CB’s now - he isway over rated.
March 8th, 2008 at 8:41 am
OakFoSho,
I’m not a J.Long fan so i don’t want him at 4th…I also think that Kelly+Sand will start and Warren will be in the mix as pass rusher…we need one of the big nt’s i mentioned before in the later rounds and we should get a DE early…C.Long would be the best…if he is gone we should trade down and get some other guy.
You really think that Harris or Henderson can be our LT…i think Harris will be a solid run blocker RT in zbs but he won’t be a pass blocking LT…maybe Henderson, but he has shown nothing last year…thats why I want an LT prospect in the 2nd…we have Fargas,Bush,Rhodes…we don’t need RunDMC, Fargas and Rhodes are proven veteran players and we got Bush (who was better than RunDMC before his injury) for the role of the talented,unproven RB
I don’t want D Hall…Aso is way better him ,Rout and Fabian are a bit worse yet,but Hall wants a Asante,Aso type of deal so it makes no sense…and i think Rout has more upside than him
March 8th, 2008 at 8:52 am
I believe the scouts have Dorsey as the Warren Sapp type three technique, but Sedrick Ellis as a NT (USC plays a lot of 3-4) that can also play the 3 technique because he’s just that talented and dominant. If true, I’d love to take Ellis at #4 because that instantly upgrades our run d and provides us with the flexibility to implement some 3-4 looks. There is also a lot of DT run stuffer value in round 2, so what I would do is trade down - McFadden won’t last past pick 6 with the Jets, so if somebody wants him, they’re either talking to us or Kansas City, and I don’t think KC wants to trade out so they can select Jake Long (their entire o line has retired basically and they NEED O-lineman badly).
I was big on McFadden pending the scouts analysis, but after Mike Mayock’s statement and the tape proving it showing MAC’s legs “go dead on contact”, I think he is no more than a change of pace/ pass catching/ 3rd down back in the NFL, like Reggie Bush, not Adrian Peterson.
Either way, a lot of people want him, and rightfully so if your only a piece or two away and need a dynamic talent - I think the Cowboys and Jerry Jones, who has already made his love known for Mac (Jones graduated from Arkansas and is a big booster), wants him bad and will pay to move up. Dallas’ two firsts and second round pick this year would be plently to get us the run stuffer we need at DT and an OT, along with a top SLB and perhaps a young WR Jamarcus Russell to grow with. Three picks in the first 34 players selected along with another around #50 would really mark the end of our “rebuilding” process and we can start drafting replacement players in the future (i.e. a top rated center next year to replace newberry since grove hasn’t panned out).
Long and Gholston don’t fit our scheme (Long might, but the scouts like him at OLB, and Gholston is definetly a OLB or pure rush end), Dorsey is a three technique with injury issues and we have enough 3 techniques (G. Warren, T. Kelly), and Jake Long doesn’t fit our scheme and projects better to RT anyway. And Mac is a luxury item that we don’t need in our running system. That makes Ellis the only player worthy of the #4 pick that fits our scheme and our need, unless Chris Long is sitting there, and again, he’s a tweener.
Of all the teams that would do business with us, Dallas is definetely one them - Al and Jerry get along very well, and I think old Jerry tipped Al off about the Kiffin to Arkansas rumors. Anyway, Dallas picks at #22 and #28 this year, which gives them 1440 points of value to our 1800 points of value based on Jimmy Johnson’s widely used draft pick value chart. So they would need to come up with 360 more points, which would be a second round pick (300 points) and a fourth round pick (60 points). I’m actually surprised it adds up perfectly!
Will Jerry Jones be willing to part with 4 draft picks in exchange for McFadden? You know what, I wouldn’t doubt it. Dallas is already loaded at most positions and it may make more sense for them to target one sure-fire playmaker rather than just “add depth” to the team. I think in their eyes, the fourth is a throw away pick anyway, so basically they don’t lose much by working out a deal with us instead of the Jets (who may not want to give him up for any reasonable price). I wouldn’t be opposed to swapping a player or two rather than the second and fourth if they’ve got something we can use, and Al will probably ask for something like the two firsts plus a good player rather than the 2nd and 4th picks since they are so low in the draft - anyway, we don’t trade down as a rule, but if Jerry’s willing to make a bad deal to get his prize, something might work out.
March 8th, 2008 at 9:00 am
Hall would be a major upgrade but he wants too much money and we would have to give up our #4 to get him - no way. We need to be able to stop the run, not the pass, and Routt, Fabian, and Bowie (I’m very high on him) are good #2 CB’s and still need time to develop. We can’t invest any more money in DB’s, that salary cap space must be devoted to the OL and DL, particularly the DL. A strong pash rush and stout run defense will help our DB’s by making them have to cover guys for shorter periods of time and not forcing them to worry so much about supporting the run. Focus on the D line - we already have a great CB that is about to cash in huge, we can’t afford to pay another one the same type of deal in the same year.
March 8th, 2008 at 9:01 am
With C. Long gone, Jake Long is the biggest need filled and safest selection at #4. He is a manster and proved it at the combine. A lot of people say he does not fit the ZBS but that is crap. He proved in the agility drills at the combine that he could get it done. We have nothing so far at LT and very little stability across the line. Mike Mayock and the experts have said he would make a good LT and an all Pro tackle at RT. Plus we do not have to pay as much to a “O” lineman like we would a skilled position. Henderson is a project and played at RT in college, a lineman for for one year only and all 49er fans know how bad K. Harris has been for them. Either of the two is a huge gamble and are you willing to take that chance on JR. Wise up, sport fans. The “O” line is the biggest ned for the Raiders!
Draft a space eating DT in the 2nd round where they be at anyway.
March 8th, 2008 at 9:05 am
If we trade down with the Dallas i thin the maximum we can get is their two 1st and the 2nd or 3rd or two 1st and the 4th and a player…I would love the first one
March 8th, 2008 at 9:09 am
I am not advocating acquiring Hall. I was just curious as to the validity of the rumor.
Getting Hall would mean we have wasted two first round picks in fab and routt.
March 8th, 2008 at 9:38 am
ive said this all along,and now that we are set pretty good at running back and not to bad at left tackle,at least so far,if jake long is still available at 4 i dont think al will pass him up,but i havent heard if tom cable thinks he fits or not so who knows about that,here is what i can see as a possibility,al and jerry jones are able to work deals,because jerry jones is one of the only owners that al hasnt fleeced in past trades and since jones loves mcfadden if hes still available at #4 i can see al trading the #4 to jones for both of the cowboys 1st rounders along with their 3rd and 5th rounders which as af now we dont have either of.there are 2 reasons i say this, #1 is a top 5 pick will command big money and al still has the russell bad taste in his mouth from last year,and #2 is that down where the cowboys pick in the first there are some quality w.r.’s along with some good o line players,where we pick in the 2nd round there are a couple of good d line players.but the big reason i can see this senario is on rivals.coms value chart this trade works out as far as value goes,im not saying this is a sure deal but it’s a strong possibility from the value standpoint.
March 8th, 2008 at 9:43 am
[…] Read more. […]
March 8th, 2008 at 11:35 am
The O line was not the major problem last year and we have an O line coach that is capable of making lemon aid out of lemons as far as players go. We lost our best player on the D line and we sucked with him? We have to draft a D tackle! it’s such a no brainer.
March 8th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
our O line is and will continue to have a problem. They can’t pass protect consistently. Shite even Art shell had us running the ball. No pass protection holding and false start penalties.
March 8th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
We are not 1 player away from being a playoff caliber team. McFadden will not get us to the playoffs for we will suck against the run once again. C. Long will be gone as will Dorsey. However we have the ball in our court for we can draft McFadden and allown J.J. to give up the ghost to obtain him. Dallas needs RB now that Julius is a Seahawk and we know Jerry loves the boys from Arkansas, especilally McFadden. They have the most to offer for not only will they give up their 2 #1’s we can get their 2nd and Marcus Spears which will take care of our DE situation and with the picks we can get the WR , DT , SS and OLB to get the Silver and Black back to Committment to Excellence. I think if Hulsey signs with another team we will get a 5th rdr to boot. How does the Nation feel about this? Comments?
March 8th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
If we can draft McFadden then deal him to Dallas for both 1st round picks and Tank Johnson and maybe a later round pick then we can address a lot more areas. Tank would be your run stuffing DL and with the later picks we could add depth on defense, etc.
March 8th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
If a deal can be made draft: WR/WR/OL/LB/DE/QB/ Then DEPTH…..We might even be able to trade Walter for an additional 3rd round pick. We are lacking too many spots to just pick one player in the 1st if a deal can be made. I am tired of being in the cellar and a laughing stock in the NFL!
March 8th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
Like your thoughts KC. The way I feel is this: If the Raiders own the #4 pick, we should pick atleast get the 4th best player in the draft, but it must fit a need position. McFadden is not a need, but he is in the top 5 of the draft. Al Davis has always looked at the 40 whether we think it is valid or not, just look at history: Fabian 4.28 combine, Routt 4.29 pro day, 4.16 Bo Jackson, Howard 4.43 (at LB, that is nuts), Higgins 4.3 something, and many more.
So in other words, we can not rule out McFadden or Desean Jackson in the 1st. I know it sounds crazy, but we traded up to get Fabian when no one else planned to pick him until the second. We picked Routt 2 rounds before he was projected to go off the board. Routt barely even played football in college, he ran track and missed every spring training while at college. (I think he is our second best corner, and Al was right in his selection, even though everyone booed it at the time)
So a trade with the Cowboys is better than picking McFadden in my opinion, cause I see no reason why Al is going to pass on him, unless someone else makes him pass. If not, I expect McFadden, and hope for someone else like Long, Long or Gholston, hell even Clady. So, to clarify, I am not a McFadden or Jackson supporter, I am an Al Davis supporter, and these 2 definately caught Al’s eye with their 40’s.
March 8th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
I even like Ellis and Dorsey more than McFadden, but 2 first round picks and a guy like Tank could put us in great shape to insert about 4 more starters or potential starters I should say. Nothing is guaranteed in the draft, so any player selected could potentially be a bust. So why not aqcuire more picks, and hope to land atleast one good one?
March 8th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Mad Road Dog,
I like the space eater DT you mention, like Trevor Laws in the 2nd or Red Bryant in the 4th.
March 8th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Even Ahtyba Ruben in the 4th would not be bad for a DT, the guy is athletic as well for a 320 pounder.
If we want the pass rusher guy later, keep an eye on Tommy Blake, could be a situational pass rusher selected late. There are two guys I want in this draft, and neither will be picked i the 1st: Jordy Nelson WR and Tom Zibikowski (FS). Nelson probably will go between the 2nd and 3rd, and Tom could be had in the 4th. Not that I don’t care about every pick, cause I do. I just love the passion these two can bring with their work ethic and production in college. Check out some Youtube clips of these guys, they are solid footballl players. Tom will be a great Cooper replacement on special teams, or an addition depending on who we keep there. Jordy had 122 catches last year, yes 122.
Tom Zibikowski:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkFh4NcaA5M
Jordy Nelson:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6B_VmbiR7o
March 8th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Two guys I want, don’t care where they are picked. Jordy Nelson WR, and Tom Zibikowski FS. Jordy is like a 2-4 round pick, and Tom is a 3-5 round pick.
Watch them:
Tom Zibikowski:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkFh4NcaA5M
Jordy Nelson:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6B_VmbiR7o
March 8th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Sorry about the two posts, meant for one, damn computer.
March 8th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
All you guys talk about in regards to trading picks is with Dallas. Just because of the relationship with Jones and AD and Dallas being the only with two 1st rounders doesn’t make them the only option for a trade. NO ONE has even mentioned the possibility of trading with any team in the top 10-15 picks. That would make a lot more sense if you ask me because there would still be some top flight players on the board and we would no doubt get another 2nd rounder in the deal (if not more) and that is what we really need. The Raiders really need another pick in the first two rounds to fill three of their holes at either DE, DT, WR, OT or SLB. That is five positions with just two picks in the first two rounds. If we trade out of that pick I think that Dallas’ picks would be a bit further down the first round than we should go.
Also, you can’t just throw out names of Cowboys players we should get like Marcus Spears and Tank Johnson. I don’t know how many times I have said this but THE RAIDERS CAN’T JUST TRADE FOR OR DRAFT ANYONE THEY SO CHOOSE. Here’s a newsflash: There are other teams in the NFL that have a say in who gets drafted and who they trade away. It is very remiscent of when I was a young boy and my friends and I would play “What if?”. Like “What if, like…a huge spaceship all of the sudden just landed in front of us and they gave us a millions dollars? Wouldn’t that be cool?” But when I was no longer a child I put away childish things.
March 8th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
I thinnk Chris owns stock in Jordy Nelson. He keeps trying to sell him to us.
March 8th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
RaiderKC: Walter for a 3rd rounder!? What are you smoking that you think anyone would give us a 3rd rounder for him? He was drafted in the 3rd and hasn’t even lived up to that. Come on man. We’d thank our lucky stars to get a 5th rounder.
I am playing the role of bubble burster today.
March 8th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Ldizzle,
Well, since I am almost done with my business degree, I know that is impossible. But if I could, sure would, cause he would come at a cheap price (since jackasses like you are hating on him) and would double my money. Or if you need a street translation, it would be called flipping an eighth into a pound. You can’t hurt me, so just give up while I am being nice.
March 8th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Do you not like Jordy? Is it cause he is white? I mean, you seen the highlights right?
March 8th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Come up with something outside the first Ldizzle, and I might think you have a general knowledge as to what kind of talent is out there this year.
March 8th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
Trading picks to dallas that far down won’t happen. So lets be real and keep it simple. We will draft Gholston 4th pick overall (if Chris Long isn’t available). 2nd round pick needs to be T. Laws.
After that find a good WR in round 4. Then in later rounds find a OT and an OLB. GOOD2GO!
March 8th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
So I exagerated the eighth to a pound, but you get my point. He is not a “highly” sought after rookie, but will improve a team for a fair pick. Anyway, I know doubling an eighth is a quarter, so don’t try that one, I was exagerating the point.
March 8th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
Oregon,
Like your thoughts. I really like Laws, except at the combine he kept looking at his feet the whole time, but the senior bowl was impressive. I think he was overshadowed by Ellis at the senior bowl, and is a solid DT. Yeah, a guy like Dexter Jackson could be had in rounds 4-6, or even Adarius Bowman who ran a sub par 40, yet was considered the best athlete on the Senior Bowl by 2 of the 3 QB’s there.
March 8th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
Ldizzle,
Any comments?
March 8th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
Chris, both those guys look good on the youtube. I don’t remember seeing nelson at the combine. I’ll have to do a little more research on him. He might be one of those recievers to pick up in the 4th round also.
March 8th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
Ldizzle,
Tank has no say in a trade, he was lucky Dallas came calling after his after hrs issues. As for Walter, have you not seen the free agency line on QB’s??? He’s shown more than most so 3rd wouldn’t be out of line…As for Jordy Nelson (KSU is KS, so I’ve seen a lot of tape on him), I would luv for Oak to get him…He’s fast and catches everything thrown his way. We don’t need the dwarf from Cal, be a big waste of a first round pick. We have too many holes and recent history on Oak’s 1st picks…Let’s just say they haven’t been getting any free trips to Hawaii.
March 8th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
Chris, i liked Adarius Bowman, he looks the part, but his hands seems a little suspect at times.
Did you see this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek0ANQ8bRfo
March 8th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
or this one…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIUu-nLx0lw
March 8th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
Yeah, his hands are suspect. I was actually suprised that the 2 Qb’s said what they did about him. Before this passt season I would have said he was a 2nd round pick maybe even a first, but after his last season, the senior bowl and the combine, I think Bowman goes in the 4th.
Yeah I have watched alot on Jordy, because at first I questioned his straight line speed. But the one against Aquib Talib shows that he can go by the best of them. Not only that, but he was one of the better route runners at the combine, and put up a Dwayne Bowe type 40 (4.51 or so). I am big on him, because he is BIG, 6′ 3″ ht. 217 lbs. He just became a WR two years ago, then he puts up 122 catches this past year. Plus his coach says he can run with Y. Figures who was also from Kansas State (Ravens KR/PR).
March 8th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
KC, am I right with the turning WR two years ago, or wasi three?
March 8th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
More on Zbikowski for those who liked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related
March 8th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
First of all, I would send CB Fabian Washington and QB Andrew Walter to Atlanta for Deangelo Hall even if for one year. Walter will never play for us and Fabian is a high draft pick along with Routt. They will try to command very good money on the market and will walk anyway without a new contract. Neither we be the type of corners that we demand in our system. If u are a true Raider fan u should know that our M. O. is great corners, and a very good secondary as a whole! Two great ones like that u have to pay for them. Look at Denver, they have two of the best in the league. Why can’t we? U guys better stop putting too much into Stanford Routt and Fabian Washington. They can be replaced! Not a corner like Deangelo Hall, and yes he is an upgrade over Nnamdi! Nnamdi is a bit overrated in my opinion. He’s in the top 10 of corners, but not top 5. Deangelo is in the top 5 for corners and will be even better as a Raider. He would definetly become the Deon Sanders of the league if this trade happens. He lost some of his luster cuz of the personal issues with their old coach, but I don’t blame him. That coach screwed the Falcons and dipped back to college!
I bet the Raiders true feelings are that Nnamdi is very good but not great! Maybe 7yr/49 mil is sufficient enough, but nothing more. They better make the trade with Atl to insure that we have another lock down corner in place in case Nnamdi decides to leave after the following year. I would restructure some contracts and sign both of them to long term contracts. We would have a hell of secondary for years, and we could continue to build depth through the draft. I would try this experiment this year, and see how they would play with one another. If Huff can’t play well with that then he could be serious trade bait after this next year. Dallas would love to have him.
March 8th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
In our current state. I would trade down hopefully with Dallas. We could get their 2 first round picks a 3rd and perhaps a player(LOLB Bobby Carpenter)? whom they are rumored to be trading. If this happens, I would still trade Fabian Washington and Andrew Walter for Deangelo Hall. I would also consider trading Terdell Sands for a 4th round pick in this years draft. I think with these transactions we could fill our needs nicely.
March 8th, 2008 at 9:16 pm
You are right on with Fabian. Man I was so pissed watching that draft, we move up for Fabian, then we snag Routt in the second way ahead of where we could have picked him. Routt is the prototypical size and speed, however like I said earlier, he never participated in spring training in college because he was doing track in the spring. We could of picked a completely different 1st round pick, and still have gotten Washington in the 2nd probably, and definately Routt in the 4th.
I like D. Hall, man our secondary would be sick. I have it written down on my offseason tracker, but I have considered it a dream. But hey, if we get him, our secondary would be second to none. Like the suggestion on the trade Kev25, makes enough sense value wise, maybe if we talk it up on the blogs we can get a rumor to catch on in the ATL.
March 8th, 2008 at 11:03 pm
Chris,
Jordy Nelson WR ‘05-’07
March 8th, 2008 at 11:11 pm
Rolni,
If you had read the scouting report on Kwame you would know that he is undersized at RT even in the ZB scheme, not to mention the Raiders just resigned Green. No judgements can be made of Mario until he plays, as everyone knew he was a bit of a project, so the fact that he has not played is not surprising.
Jediraider
Ellis is overvalued at #4, and if you had read his scouting report you would know he is undersized and does not project as a NT. Thus by you logic he is not what we need. Also, C. Long is not a tweener, Rather an every down DE, and no where have I read that scouts think he is an OLB, and yes if he is there the Raiders will take him.
Chris,
Why do you always spit the same names over and over again. Think about it, your thoughts have been focused on late round picks/fliers to fill secondary roles. The Raiders have way too many holes to fill to start worrying about who will fill Coopers place, especially because Cooper will still be a Raider, and Special Teams was a strong point for the Raiders most of last season. Again, expand your mind to include more than 2 players that you are obviously obsessed with, before you start trying to clown on others for their lack of knowledge. And, you think you could have put more posts up, Its called train of thought, so focus man and get it all down at once.
Raiderkev25,
Do you watch the same games as the rest of us, cause Rout and Fabian have improved every year. The Raiders CB position is the most difficult/demanding in the league due to the amount of man coverage that they play. You don’t just throw away two solid seasons of development and improvement, especially when it took Aso 3 seasons to come into his own.
Rout and Fabian will both be #1s in this league once they have completed their development, and I would not give that up for anything short or a #1 pick for either of them. I look for breakout years for both of them concidering this is year 3. Again, the Raiders CB position is the most difficult in the league, and it takes time to become great in this system.
The fact that you undervalue Aso just tells me you have no knowledge about the position. The ball was thrown his way 22 times last season, thats a little more than 1 chance per game, which lead the league and explains his lack of stats. The opponents refused to throw his way, and you need to do some research before you make bold statements. You too Chris.
OakFoSho
March 9th, 2008 at 1:48 am
I think Chris has set a record with 16 posts on one link. Wow! Do you have a job? A GF? Wow!
OakFoSho
March 9th, 2008 at 5:02 am
OakFoSho
Are you serious??Harris is undersized with his 6-7 height and 322 weight??What are you talkin about??Green will be a back up behind him at RT…Harris is not good at pass protection so i don’t want him as our LT…Henderson hopefully translates into a pass blocking LT but it would be too risky to start the season only with him at LT thats why i would like a guy like Sam Baker,Gosder Cherlious for us in the 2nd round…
March 9th, 2008 at 5:11 am
OakFoSho,
What are you talkin about man?Harris undersized at 6-7 with 322…you must be joking!Harris is not a passblocking playa so i don’t want him at LT…he can be a good run blocking RT under Cable…Green will be his back up…Henderson could be a solid LT,but it would be too risky to start the next season only with him on the roster, that’s why i’m asking for a guy like Sam Baker or Gosder Cherlius in the 2nd round…
Chris,
Jordy Nelson would be great in Silver and Black…
We don’t need Tom…we are full at the safety position
March 9th, 2008 at 5:33 am
OakFoSho,
What are you talkin about? Harris at 6-7 322 is undersized??
You must be kidding!!Harris is a run blocking rt not good for lt…green will be his back up…Henderson could be a good Lt but i would like another LTprospect besides him at the start of the season…Sam Baker,Gosder Cherlious,Tony Hills…
March 9th, 2008 at 5:35 am
Sorry about the 3 comments but my PC fucked me over…
March 9th, 2008 at 7:16 am
The Raider draft should consist of DE, DT first. DT is deeper so I recommend Gholston. C.Long will be gone and we can get a DT in the 2nd. For those that say Gholston is too small ask Jake Long. Plus, he’s bigger and stronger than Burgess and he starts. Mcfadden is a non-issue. We’re set a RB. We don’t have the luxury of picking the latest/greatest every yr. We need to give Bush a shot. If Dorsey is available at #4 I admit its decision time. In the 4th we pick up the best WR or OL available.
March 9th, 2008 at 8:05 am
AZRaider,
I agree with you on Gholston,but after him i would like an LT. We need an NT so Dorsey is not our guy…in the 4th we easily can get a solid NT who can compete with Sands for the starting role next to Kelly…Marcus Harrison in the 4th would be huge or we can get Frank Okam even in the 5th or 6th…
March 9th, 2008 at 10:30 am
i think that we are kinda settled at the DE position cause if you can recall tommy plays DE, so we have depth there we can also draft players in the later rounds.
but i think dorsey is the best pick for us because of the scheme that we run…im not a big fan of his but i think he is the best fit for us…
it would have been great if sapp was here to be a mentor for the kid…
March 9th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Rolni,
Here is Kwame scouting report, and in it you will see the reasons why I believe Kwame is a LT not a RT.
“Harris is tall, long-armed and well-built. He is a smooth athlete. He can get very wide in his pass set and has the wingspan to ride edge rushers past the pocket. He has enough quickness and reach to adjust and recover fairly well. But Harris is an underachiever whose easygoing temperament is better suited to the left side. He lacks the play strength and toughness to succeed on the right side. He is a low-motor player who plays too nice. He needs a lot of technical refinement. He isn’t a natural knee bender. He plays too tall and with wide hands. He absorbs too much in pass protection and has trouble holding his ground against good power rushers. He lacks ideal balance when engaged and spends way too much time on the ground. He takes false steps and is out of position far too often. He gets beat too often for a player with his talent.”
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl.....atsId=6362
As you can see, many of his faults will be solved by the ZB scheme, but only on the let side. I did not meant to say undersized, but rather underachiever, so my bad on that one, but Kwame is still a better LT prospect.
OakFoSho
March 9th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Kelly will not be playing DE this year peni. It is pretty much set that he has made the switch to DT. So DE is definately a position of need. The most needed in fact.
Chris
I don’t think I need to respond to your nonSENSE. Oakfosho pretty much covered it. So read his post. He covers your narrow minded obsessions and your pathetic existence that has you posting 16+ times on one article.
March 9th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
which rounds do you start going offense? At some point the offense needs to be addressed. Anyone have any thoughts on which offensive position should be addressed first and who might that pick be?
March 9th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
OakFoSho,
I have talked with 49ers fans and they told me that Harris was drafted to be an LT…when they realized that he can’t play that postion in the NFL they moved him to RT and he sucked there too…he made very very much false start and holding…
on the nfl.com they write that he is more of a run blocking T than a pass protector…I believe in Cable and i hope that he can be a solid RT but i don’t see him as our LT of the future…even the text you put in tells this about him:
He lacks ideal balance when engaged and spends way too much time on the ground. He takes false steps and is out of position far too often. He gets beat too often for a player with his talent.
This is not what you want from your LT.
But man i would love it if he or Henderson would be a good LT for the next couple of years…i hope Kiffin and Cable knows it and draft an Lt if we need or not if those guys can handle it…we will see it
March 9th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
Eks,
As you can see i want an Lt in the 2nd…after that i would like a WR in the 4th or 5th it depends on which WR’s and NT’s will be there…If Jordy Nelson is there in the 4th i would choose him in a second or Dexter Jackson in the 5th would be nice too…if Mike Pollack is there in the 4th and Nelson isn’t i would choose him…if either there i would choose the best NT or SLB
March 9th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
Rolni,
The knocs you have against Kwame would happen at both LT and RT, rather his lack of “play strength” dictates that he be a LT. We already have Green and Mquistan at RT, while w/o Kwame we only have the untested Henderson. Again, the start of the season will prove one of us right, and I am very confident that all I have read and heard tells me Kwame is a LT. Also, why believe 49er fans that are just bitter.
OakFoSho
March 9th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
Yes to win you need to stop the run, and put pressure on the QB. The Raiders just make this a priority. Because we can run it with the guys we got, we donot need to draft a runner 1st.
March 9th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
Gholston is on his way. He can rush as a sam and really kill the offensive flow…
Gholston in 2008
March 10th, 2008 at 1:54 am
1st pick DE C.Long/V.Gholston
2nd pick OT Sam Baker
4th pick Two gap NT Frank Okam/Mat Malele
6th & 7th picks WR
March 10th, 2008 at 10:10 am
Oakfoo,
Well I have a job, a g/f, and I go to college full time. Sorry I am better than you, maybe you should get a life too, they can be inspiring.
March 10th, 2008 at 10:14 am
Oakfoo and fag boy I mean Dizzle,
Get at me, I will even give you my address. Lame asses, anytime or anyplace.
March 10th, 2008 at 10:47 am
Actually if you two want to divulge my personal life, I have been arrested 3 times once when I was 12 and one was a felony that I was not convicted for. I served 6 years in the Army, and I grew up without a Father. Trust me, I have learned to get by on my own in life, so really you two would be like speed bumps in my life.
March 10th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
19 posts! Definitely a record! Its a blog man, if you can’t take the heat, get out the kitchen! Cause we cook some mean stew here, and your ridiculous personal attacks prove you have factual base left to stand on with regards to the discussion of football, specifically the draft. Go do more research, and come back with some good info, so that way you don’t need to embarrass yourself with these ridiculous rants. If you really did serve in the Army, props, as my whole family is military, but I don’t see what that has to do with the draft or you posting 19 times on a single blog.
OakFoSho
March 10th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
Patrick is absolutely right when in regards to the defensive line. It was a sieve last year, and a trio of Tommy Kelly, Terdell Sands, and Gerard Warren alone is not going to make a difference. I’m pretty confident that they will remedy this problem in the draft. All this talk about Dorsey coming to Oakland I believe is overblown. He is a three technique, comparing favorably to Warren Sapp, but didn’t Al just make Tommy Kelly the highest paid at that same position? Kelly is a three technique too, so investing top 4 money in him is unwise in my mind. Sedrick Ellis makes a ton of sense here, even if it is slightly higher than his projection. He is much more of a nose tackle than Dorsey, and played that same position while at nearby USC. He dominated at the Senior Bowl, and Lane already is very familiar with him from thier time together at USC. He’s a bit short but plays with outstanding leverage, similar to Kelly Gregg, the nose tackle playing for the Baltimore Ravens. In fact Ellis compares favorably to Gregg, but is more athletic. Of course if he’s still on the board, I believe Al will not hesitate to pull the trigger on Chris Long. Let’s put aside the bloodlines for a moment, Long is a rugged base end who is the very definition of “high motor” and can rush the passer effectively as well. He’ll take pressure off of Derrick Burgess without sacrificing the run defense. Now to the people who are clamoring for Darren McFadden. By renegotiating the contract of Dominic Rhodes, that should imply to everyone that they will not take McFadden with the 4th overall pick. I believe they will however, use him as a fine bargaining chip. Al doesn’t usually trade down in the first round, but by holding the potential pick for McFadden in his withered palms, don’t rule out Al moving down if a trade appeals to him. Remember people this is the Raiders, NOT a conventional franchise. Simply put, expect the unexpected. In the end, by observing what has happened in free agency, and provided that they don’t trade down, expect Oakland to select Chris Long or Sedrick Ellis with the fourth pick.
March 10th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
Oh, and as far the DeAngelo Hall rumors…..we DO NOT need his overrated , self promoting, trash talking ass! I hate the fact that whenever there is a disgruntled overrated player on the market that they are automatically associated with coming to Raiders. Hall is simply a big talker who can’t back it up with his p[lay on the field. Does anyone remember the meltdown he had against Steve Smith early in the season? We are fine with Asomugha, and by the way the front office better get him signed long term.
March 10th, 2008 at 9:12 pm
I think that if McFadden is available to us on the 4th pick we need to go ahead and get him. Look what a difference Adrian Petterson and Reggie Bush was to their teams. I think McF is the same kind of impact player. We can address our other needs in the later rounds.
March 11th, 2008 at 4:17 am
AirForceRaider,
McFadden won’t be AP…he is worse than Adrian…
Bush did very little with NO…yes in his rookie year he had some good cathes and a few good runs,but without Deuce this year his run game was a nonfactor…he can’t run in the middle just outside…
We have Fargas and Rhodes, two solid veteran players Fargas is a 1000yard rusher and Mike Bush will be good next year…Fargas and Bush is all we need, so RUNDMC shouldn’t be our pick…
March 11th, 2008 at 11:23 am
Guys you gotta remember that the blocking scheme that Tom Cable has implemented is very similar to that of the Denver Broncos and Atlanta Falcons. You don’t need a superstar at running back to be successful in this system, you can simply plug guys in and let them run. Last season LaMont Jordan, Justin Fargas, and Dominic Rhodes each rushed for 100 yards at least once apiece so this means what people? It’s about the system, not the players. Denver has been able to rotate backs in out for a decade now, and the Raiders are following suit. McFadden is a luxury not a neccessity, especially when other holes need to be addressed.
March 11th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
i think Vernon Gholston would be great for the raiders also maybe C. Long or G. Dorsey. I dont agree with S. Ellis i think he’s undersized for what we need which is a run stuffer. I doubt Al will take J. Long but i would be happy if he did. Unfortunantly i think Al will take D- Mac with the 4th pick, which i think will be a huge mistake. Also it would be great for the raiders to get a guy like Pacman Jones or Deangelo Hall if nothing else these guys are great kick and punt return men. I dont remember us ever having a good return guy, Johnie Lee Higgins and Chris Carr just aren’t getting it done.
March 11th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
Pat,
Dorsey is taller than Ellis with an inch and Ellis is heavyer and better in run stopping,so i don’t see what you are talkin about…but neither of these guy are real NT what we need…they can play NT but they are UT so leave them alone…
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